AusBonsai

Im just curious and would love to hear everyones stories. How do u decide how each tree is shaped? Do you go by the type of tree it is and what its natural environment will be? Do you watch the tree first and let it tell you how it wants to look? (what I have been doing) Or do you buy a tree with a style in mind and go for it? As artists style is only limited by our creativity so I wondering, how does your creative process work?

Bella, normally I let the tree talk to me. Having said that, if I am going to produce a certain style of tree I will go look for stock that talks to me in that style (which I guess is the same thing )
Tree species is taken into account with style as well. Not a lot of point trying to style a Swamp Cypress into a Cascade now is there?
Having said that, I have been known to "force" a tree into a style, just because I want it to.

Do you go by the type of tree it is and what its natural environment will be? Do you watch the tree first and let it tell you how it wants to look? (what I have been doing)

That's the way I usually tackle a tree Bella. I was told a long time ago 'Look for the tree within - the tree will tell you what shape it should be', and that's what I pass on to people that are new to Bonsai. The type of tree and it's natural environment can also be a deciding factor. I mean, a Moreton Bay fig would look totally out of place as a Literati with only a few leaves right at the top of a tall slender trunk, whereas a Juniper would fit this style perfectly.

As artists style is only limited by our creativity so I wondering, how does your creative process work?

That's quite true. Creativity does go a long way in deciding how to style a tree, but the material needs to be there for that creativity to start working.

A few weeks ago, I was looking for some Juniperus Luchuensis Taxifolia. It's a prostrate type of Juniper but has nice soft foliage. I found some at a local nursery and searched through about 40 four inch pots, and came up with about six reasonable ones (I wanted them for Informal uprights). Out of that six, I discarded them one by one until I had what I believe were the two best for what I wanted to do with them. Those are the ones I bought.

Since my trees are all very young and small I'm only starting to reach the point now where Im starting to think about styling. I bought saplings because they are cheap and I figured I should practice keeping these different trees alive before I start looking at bigger and better stock. Lol, Im learning fast! But I have let all these trees go for a year and I have been potting them into bigger pots to give them the freedom to get thicker trunks and all that jazz. Already, just by watching them I have worked out what each one will look like eventually. My chinese elm has twisted itself into a vey interesting shape with two big exposed roots with no interference from me which made me think about this question. Its very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

hi Bella

the boys have given you some good advice, I agree with it all. one thing about bonsai is when you buy trees consider you are buying time, you have said you have bought saplings which is fine and sometimes a better way to go as the growth and tree can be controlled from an early stage. it just takes time to get them to a workable stage. cheap trees are good when starting to as it does teach you to keep them alive and if they do die its not a huge loss.
when you get to a stage where you buy or have grown stock with the potential to work on and get a tree out of it you will find it much easier then trying to grow a tree into a style. which by all means can be done to most, whetehr it works or not is another story

when I look at a tree to style, what you want to do is see what pros and cons the tree has, what its natural habit is and whether you want a natuarl habit style, if it will suit this style or that one, if the trunk has the right movement or size for styles suitable. there are other considerations too. so I guess I generally let the tree help me work out what style it is to be, I dont usually loo at styling to a typical style either, I beleive it comes out just a tad more natural that way, as Taffy said I also go through a lot of trees until I find the one that hits me and says this will work, remember bonsai is an art of time, with time a lot of things can change in a tree

the other tip I will give you is not so much how to choose a style but when styling, try and do a few sketches of what you might like to see, they dont have to be master pieces just a guide. also wiring a tree out completly before removing any branches is a good idea too, that way it makes you second guess whether you need to cut something off which can be a common mistake for beginners with styling they take a lot of branching off and it can make it hard to style a tree when there isnt enough branching

jamie

I know this is similarly a repeat of what everyone has said thus far but im sure that if there was anywhere there was someone else who might do the same thing it would be on here...

I experiance dreams (yes the kind you have when you go to bed) about the style and shape my trees could take, I do think about it while concious as well but i think the more active creative part of my minds eye happens to switch on when I stop thinking about anything at all.

From what ive seen from experanced masters thus far it wouldnt shock me if a beautiful tree could be made out of a pile of rocks. It seems theres a shape, size & style for everything. All you have to do is see it.

Jamie wrote:hi Bella

I dont usually look at styling to a typical style either, I beleive it comes out just a tad more natural that way, as Taffy said I also go through a lot of trees until I find the one that hits me and says this will work, remember bonsai is an art of time, with time a lot of things can change in a tree


wiring a tree out completly before removing any branches is a good idea too, that way it makes you second guess whether you need to cut something off which can be a common mistake for beginners with styling they take a lot of branching off and it can make it hard to style a tree when there isnt enough branching

jamie

Agree totally here. Re semi trained pre-bonsai/ stock trees, some will often present a number of different styles but there is usually one that stands out which will suit that tree. You will often hear 'bringing out the potential' of a tree. Look for what gives the tree the best quality. I will always look at the trunk first, movement, nebari. Move the tree through different angles. There may be a hidden front that wasn't as obvious at first. Branches can be trained, grafted to suit.
Certainly styling the trunk from saplings will give you the control to style/ shape as you please. The way the tree grows in nature is always a good guide to how it might be trained as a bonsai. I say might because there is always a tree out tere that goes against the norm and looks good.
A few trees that I've had I've studied for as long time before having a go. Due to a few different fronts, or one is chosen but never quite liked it so left to grow for a few years to mature a little more, come back to it and seen something different. Other trees have been bought styled and potted within the day!!
The tree will always tell you in the end how it should be styled.

re cutting off too many branches.....seen it so many times.

Hi Bella, welcome to AusBonsai
I was lucky in my first year of playing with bonsai to have picked up 2 of the best books written on bonsai design in the western world: Bonsai its Art, Science, History and Philosphy by Deborah Koreshoff and The Art of Bonsai by Peter Adams. Both of these titles are written as manuals of bonsai art and technique and are brilliantly illustrated by the authors, who are both trained artists. What I think these 2 books did for me initially was open my eyes at a very early stage to classical bonsai styling and beyond that into artistic expression of those core styles. Simply put, the rules and how to stretch them. After a little while, when it came to selecting trees, they either had something that appealed to me visually so I bought them or they didn't, so I passed. It's difficult to explain how it works for me and obviously it's a different process for everybody, but I think if a tree pulls my trigger visually, it usually turns out that there is at least 2 styles that I can go with and usually one that is a better design decision than the other. I will confess that I still sometimes I let impatience get the better of me, I choose the easiest or quickest style option and regret later that I didn't choose the long road, which would have yielded a better tree.

I have probably thrown up more questions than answers here. How do I chosse a style. I'm buggered if I know half of the time, but I suggest that the more well designed bonsai that you see, both in drawings, pictures and in person, the better designer of little trees you will be and in time, you will just know.

Cheers,
Mojo

Always look for the smallest tree within, that way your tree will have dynamism from the start.

Cheers Pup

cheers Andrew

yea I do see a lot of trees that have to many branches taken off and it makes it hard to style, it also slows down the trees development into the style. I actually just recently read something that Craig wrote about taking branches off to early and how it slows the development down, it just reminded me of it and how often it happens, and the things is we have all done it at some stage

one other thing I didnt mention, this is by no means a hardfast rule but it can help when starting, if you can look for the smallest tree within 90% of the time it will be the best choice, in saying that sometimes height is a good thing in the trees style

it is always a good idea to go through all options, picking the best front by movement and nebari is kep, branch placement is a little bit secondary as grafting can be done with most.

jamie

edit- hahaha, pup was thinking the same thing as me with the smallest tree

One of the first things I learned Jamie over twenty years ago, sadly not always praticed.

Cheers Pup

I wish I learnt that early, it wasnt until a few years in and a lot of fumbling around did I learn this, and it still isnt always put in practice, like I said earlier it is something we have all done and do every now and again. thats bonsai though!
trying to get beginners to be cofident enough in taking a tree down to a first branch can be hard though, you have a little juniper that shows exactly why it can and does work so well.

Bella wrote:Im just curious and would love to hear everyones stories. How do u decide how each tree is shaped? Do you go by the type of tree it is and what its natural environment will be? Do you watch the tree first and let it tell you how it wants to look? (what I have been doing) Or do you buy a tree with a style in mind and go for it? As artists style is only limited by our creativity so I wondering, how does your creative process work?

In general I let the tree decide what it wants to be.

My preferance is for yamadori so alot is determined by whats available. True wild, affected by natural or other non human hands thru to urban hedges & garden trees/shrubs. In the wild the tree chooses me, if I go trying to find a particular style I will search in vein a lifetime. In the urban environment it either has to have some potential or is going to be removed anyway so may as well be salvaged.

When I have bought or traded bonsai/potensai it is because I can see a different tree to the one presented with a bit of work & a few years and its not something I curently have or is interesting enough for me to want another of the species.

With most of the trees that I acquire I like to take my time let the tree talk to me, sometimes i go with my original idea when I got it, more often I find something I like even more hiding at an odd or unusual angle. Even more joy is to be had when there is more buried in the pot and then you have to just follow your gut & the tree no matter how much study & planning went into the top half.

Matt

For me find ing the right style for the tree is a very simple matter. I just follow the trunk line, thats what should dictate the style. If you watch the eyes of a Japanese artist looking for the front of a tree they will start at the root base (Nebari) and slowly work up the tree, looking for movement and taper. Once you have established which is the best front then the style will follow automatically .
If you are growing your trees from young plant material then you should learn some growing on skills as well.
Craigw

These are some pictures of the tree that got me thinking of styling and all that. Its like its deciding for itself how it wants to be shaped. Sry, the photos arent the best cause im still learning.