AusBonsai

hi i was wondering how is a sumo ( big ass fig ) trunk is created . i have heard that figs can be fed very heavy how heavy are we talking ? i know they like dynamic lifter and chicken poo. where do i get chicken poo?

Hi Paul
You too could find this topic by the use of the search function

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Tony

Paulneill wrote:hi i was wondering how is a sumo ( big ass fig ) trunk is created . i have heard that figs can be fed very heavy how heavy are we talking ? i know they like dynamic lifter and chicken poo. where do i get chicken poo?

Most people get it from a chicken!

Dynamic lifter is processed / pelletized Chicken poo .

Yep check the threads out on Fast growing Figs in dynamic lifter
Ken

Don't bother with this one mate, I've been told by some who haven't tried the system, that it is to expensive and wont work, a waste of money, even if it does work.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3173#p33848










Sorry guys, that was very naughty of me and I promise not to do it again.

i don't understand how is it expensive ? surely all you need is a tub of dynamic lifter . where is the cost?

kcpoole wrote:

Paulneill wrote:hi i was wondering how is a sumo ( big ass fig ) trunk is created . i have heard that figs can be fed very heavy how heavy are we talking ? i know they like dynamic lifter and chicken poo. where do i get chicken poo?

Most people get it from a chicken!

I thought you got it from a bag I think i should go & see whats in my hen house besides eggs

Paulneill wrote:i don't understand how is it expensive ? surely all you need is a tub of dynamic lifter . where is the cost?

Have you bought any Dynamic Lifter in recent times???? If you add up what it would cost over the course of a couple of years you can end up spending more than you would to buy a decent stock tree from Ray ......

I have never answered this question before Matt (because no one has, to my knowledge, asked), so just this one time. The fast grow system requires less than a bag of Pellatised Chook poo a year per tree. I would probably use the equivelant to a bucket of Blood and Bone per tree as well, so the 'expence' is not that high. There are also a couple of cheaper alternatives available out there now as well. In fact the one I am using at the present time comes from male chooks and is every bit as good.

I doubt anyone could buy an equivelant tree from any Nursery for the money it cost to grow. I know that from the price I was paid for mine, sorry Nursery owners.

Yes Pup, I now know what you say is the truth. I have learnt a very valuable lesson over this whole business. I have never refused to share any of my knowledge with another genuine Bonsai enthusiast. The way I figure it is most of that knowledge was passed to me by someone else, or the knowledge was gained from guidence given by others for me to find the information in the first place. When I was on the AABC Visiting Demonstrator's List my services were offered free without any charges, other than my costs obviously. I believe in fostering the increase of Bonsai knowledge to every participant of the Hobby, but that has now changed and the passing on of techniques will now be mettered by me. There will be no more broadspread internet advice offered, although if I can help anyone on a personal level I will still gladly offer that advice. By the way, any of my Ex-wives will also tell you a different story as well.

Sorry to hijack the thread, back on track. In all seriousness, the only real way to get big wood in any Bonsai material is through growing space, water and fertiliser. It isn't rocket science really. If you stick a tree in a little pot it will never grow to any where near it's true potential, well not in our life time anyhoo. Plant a Ficus seedling in a 4" (100mm) pot and another from the same batch into a styrene box, feed and water both trees the same for a year and see which tree will be doing the best. So, styro boxes, really big (over 400mm) plastic pots, or the ground are where any trees destined to be large Bonsai should commence their formative years. After obtaining the trunk and branch size you want, then pot them up into the smaller pots to commence the refinement stages of the journey. Of course you can shorten the process by obtaining big trees to start with and then spend the same time frame fixing the large scars from where you cut them back.

One way of obtaining big material is to style branches while they are still growing on the parent tree and once happy with the development, Air Layer the branch, pot up and enjoy your 'instant Bonsai'. One thing to watch out for if you go this way though is that your 'Bonsai-in-Training' is safe from the eyes of other Bonsai nuts who might like your tree if found growing out in the open someplace. (ask me how I know about this one some day )

Hey Graeme
The people who say the DL fast growth system doesn't work without even trying it are just pig headed. I always found mine to be at least very healthy in growth (which I thought was amazing enough) but now I have made slight changes as you suggested (increased the fertilizer application) it is really starting to take off. I am looking forward to mucking around with this more in the future.
One thing I am wondering at the moment is how long do you leave it in the same mix without repotting. Over the two seasons I mucked around with this I have used a fresh mix each season but wonder if that is necessary?

The fast grow system requires less than a bag of Pellatised Chook poo a year per tree. I would probably use the equivalent to a bucket of Blood and Bone per tree as well,

Looks like I still have some refining of the technique to go as I have not even been using this much. In fact I have not supplemented at all with Blood and Bone after the initial potting up.
I thought this was a technique more for the hobby grower with limited space wanting to grow their own stock and may not be viable for a profitable nursery but after hearing your experience with it it does seem viable for a nursery looking at growing top quality stock for sale at a profit.

The problem we face is people with ideas out of the square can be highly chastised and this causes people like Graeme and others to be wary of speaking out about these things. The spirit of ausbonsai is to promote free discussion yet I notice discussion is not as free and forth comming as when we first started.
Although at least ausbonsai did not delete the fast growth system thread because the moderators had the opinion it might give beginers the wrong idea about bonsai as another forum did.

Boy Brett, you run right up close to the bone sometimes.

First though, to your question. It depends entirely on the tree, but I try hard to make the tree last out two years between repots. The reason for this (and here I go being controversal again) is the tree spends a large amount of it's energy for the first year after rootpruning just re-establishing it's root system. If we root prune every year a lot of the 'wood' delevopement is slowed down, which of course slows the design part of the tree's development. So I have a year of root growth (or thereabouts) and then a year of tree development before repeating the process for the next couple of years following root pruning again. Now having said that I have had trees grown this way that have had to be root pruned yearly and they ave just powered on with development, so as I said, depends on the individual tree really. Please note, I am only talking about trees grown with the fast growth system here people. Trees grown normaly will, when young starter stock, normaly have to be root pruned yearly as they will not be able to withstand being rootbound in the pot, should that happen. As for Blood and bone, mate Ficus love the stuff just, or more, than Chook Poo. Trouble is it is so damn fine and the grit box is so well drained it should be applied often. Again B&B is an Organic slow release fert so should not harm the trees. Again but, used with great drainage.

Brett wrote:The spirit of ausbonsai is to promote free discussion yet I notice discussion is not as free and forth comming as when we first started

Mate, this is exactely why I come here as often as I can. Some have probably notced I joined that other forum a while back. There were a couple of reasons (non Bonsai) for that, which I don't want to get into, but will say one of those reasons was to answer the critics of your post in that Forum. I have spoken to one of those members by PM and while I do not wish to get into any public slanging matches, will say I am very disappointed with his attitude on the whole. And I will say no more about that. (Said in my best Forrest Gump voice). I have to agree with you about this particular Forum though mate. I have always been made to feel more than welcome here. There has been discussion about a few of my posts here, as with all other members. Never once have I seen a member belittled for any of his comments here, which is something that happens a lot on many other Forums throughout Cyberland. I have never heard of one member being accussed of growing sticks here or told to go away and get some decent stock before posting pictures for advice. This Forum may be more directed toward the beginer than most of the others, but there are also a lot of very knowledgable Bonsai practioners (was going to say old, but didn't want to get flamed ) that have damn high post counts on here which must say something about the Forum. I agree with one cranky old bugger who had a recent whinge about repeated questions which just seem to roll around and around all the time. They do get tireing to answer when we know there is a search button up top of the page, but not everyone knows how to dive these internet thingies first time they come on board, so the same dumb, to us, questions get answered again and again we ask, "why do I bother". Way I figure it is that PITA Newbie will get his one day when he is the 'Old Guy' of the Forum The reason I come here as often as I do really is detailed in my signature down there V and it is so easy to do here as opposed to other forums.

End of rant, thank you Umpire, thank you Linesmen, thank you Ballboys, Graeme has retreated to his seat once again. Now what was the question again.

I found this page on creating Sumo Bonsai, i think its very helpful.

http://www.fukubonsai.com/4a6.html

Hey Graeme
I totally agree the the first year of fast Growth ( whether your method or in the ground), is pretty much wasted on reestablishing itself

I have put a few trees in garden beds, and for the most part the first year is quite slow if you have root pruned fairly hard.
If you have not done much root work, then it will sulk for a little then take off toward the end of summer

Ken

Thanks Graeme

I was thinking that the fig needed the initial boost of all the DL to make it take off so that is why I put it in a fresh mix this year. I was hoping you would say the two years as I started to think just adding more fertiliser in the second year may work well. It will be interesting to see how adding more B and B will go as well.
I know one member at least gets great results from root pruning every year but I still lean to the thought that it takes a couple of years for the roots to really get growing and give alot more growth. Criag may have a good point that root pruning every year with field grown trees will give a better final result. I think we could all agree though that there are many variables in the different way we go about things and one way may not work for all.

Boy Brett, you run right up close to the bone sometimes.

I like to believe that being honest and asking questions should not get you into trouble. But it is a wild world we live in
Thanks agian for all the ongoing advice

Bretts wrote:
The problem we face is people with ideas out of the square can be highly chastised and this causes people like Graeme and others to be wary of speaking out about these things. The spirit of ausbonsai is to promote free discussion yet I notice discussion is not as free and forth comming as when we first started.
Although at least ausbonsai did not delete the fast growth system thread because the moderators had the opinion it might give beginers the wrong idea about bonsai as another forum did.

Brett,
As someone who on more than one occasion pleaded for moderators to intervene in a discussion that was not to your liking, you really should be careful what you wish for then eh.

Cheers,
Mojo

I think you will find you are mistaken Mojo. I have only ever asked that discussions are allowed to continue without trolls and personal attacks when others have found the discussion not to thier liking.