How do you choose a pot? Bonsai+Pot discussion

[Ash]

How do you choose a pot?

I have started this thread to obtain the opinions and ideas of different growers, new, old and otherwise on how they decide on the size and shape, colour, surface texture etc. of a pot for a bonsai. Many books have general rules of thumb on how to decide for upright trees. Information on choosing a pot for cascades, semi-cascades, windswept bonsai and unconventional styles like banyans or root over rock are not so common. Below are some of the proportions and characters that suit my personal preferences:

Tall Upright tree
Pot width = 2/3rds the height of a tree
Pot depth = width of trunk at widest point
Pot colour = depends on tree species
Pot texture =

Wide crowned upright tree
Pot width = 2/3rds the width of crown
Pot depth = width of trunk above roots
Pot colour = depends on tree species
Pot texture =

Wide crowned banyan with aerial roots (fig), root over rock (fig) or raft (fig)
Pot width = 3/4ths the wide of the crown
Pot depth = < the width of the trunk + roots (I generally prefer shallow 'forest tray' pots for banyans and root over rock figs)
Pot shape = oval or cloud rectangle
Pot colour = muted brown or grey unglazed, white glazed, green glazed or if the tree has bright white trunk blue glazed
Pot texture =

Forests and Group Plantings
Pot width = width of crowns together
Pot depth = width of the thickest trunk, usually shallow trays
Pot shape = landscape oval or landscape rectangle (round seems rare in groups)
Pot colour = muted brown, black or grey unglazed, black glazed
Pot texture =

Semi cascade / Cascade / Windswept
Pot width = ?
Pot depth = ?
Pot shape = ? (often strong hexagonal pots for semi-cascade windswept when shown in bonsai galleries)
Pot colour = ?
Pot texture =

Literati
Pot width = ?
Pot depth = ?
Pot shape = ? (often round drum pots or flaring bowl shaped pots with three legs in bonsai galleries)
Pot colour = ?
Pot texture =

Can you fill this in? I would love examples of particular trees and the dimensions and characters of the pot that lead you to make that particular choice. Interested in all things- shape, feet, surface texture etc.

Ash

[bodhidharma]

Ooohhh, I want to get involved in this one Ash. To many things to do at the moment to comment but pot and tree combo's are an art form in themselves.

[irish]

Hi.

As a new person to this forum, and to Bonsai. Here is another thread, now i have to keep reading this as well.

Hope to see some pictures and pot dimensions. You can tell me things a thousand times, but showing is the best.

Regards.
Irish.

[nealweb]

I can only contribute in regard to azaleas.

The health of the tree is always the first priority and the two points that Arthur (Pres.) and the satsuki society have come up with regarding pots for azalea's are -

1 - the pots should be of a decent depth (often greater than the guidlines on aesthetics would suggest) because they don't want to dry out.
2 - pots should be in a lighter colour because they do not want cooked roots.

Cheers!

neal.

[Ash]

Ficus microcarpa root over rock.jpg

I have posted this one to show where an exception to the above guidelines has been used. My teacher originally planted this tree on the rock without a pot as a clinging to rock style. It was a small tree that eventually got its roots over the side into the ground and became a big tree. A few years ago we lifted it up into and planted it in a shallow pot changing it to a root over rock rather than a clinging to rock style. It is planted in a shallow Japanese Tokoname pot because there is already plenty of weight in the rock and also root space in the cavity on top. This tree has not been fine wired and is seldom moved because with such a large piece of basalt it is extremely heavy. I just about blew a valve when I last lifted it up to give it a trim. Ash

ps. In my view it has two fronts. When I feel up to it I will turn it around and photograph it the other way.

[GavinG]

A can of worms. The principles you've put up are reasonable, and can be debated at length, but for me you just have to test the tree and the pot together - they either talk or they don't. Sometimes they'll surprise you, which is always magic.

A few bits and pieces:

Colour, shape, and foot design all influence how "heavy" or "light" a pot will look - measurements aren't everything.
A lighter colour will carry less visual "weight", so sometimes it can be bigger than a dark pot. A pot that is light on its feet is usually better, unless the trunk is very heavy for it's height. Drum pots are very visually heavy. Literati trees usually fight against anything with corners, and the light trunks often need a pot that doesn't sit too solid. Semi-cascades often need something with a square profile - a bit of height, and not too wide, so the trunk has a solid rock to spring from. Cascades need deep and relatively small sideways, to match the downward trunk movement.

The colour of the pot, and the colour of the trunk, and the leaves through the seasons, all need to relate.

A strong-coloured pot, or one with marked texture, needs a very strong tree to live with. That will usually mean a thickish trunk with a complex shape.

The profile of the lip can sometimes not work with the trunk shape. Don't ask me how or why, it just doesn't.

And always put your tree into a pot it will survive in.

Good thread.

Gavin

[Bretts]

As good as this article is I am suprised it is not more widley known in the bonsai comunity so here is the link agian
http://www.bonsai-keramik.com/en/teorie.html

[Ash]

Hey that is great link Bretts, Thanks- I had not seen it before- thats exactly what I wanted to get discussion going about! cheers Ash

[Edward Scissorhand]

Ash, thats a real nice root over rock fig you got. How old is it? Ive got one thats just overgrown and not as nice as yours. But its planted on a large petrified wood which is probably 30kg. My African fig tree has barely any soil left and seems like its just living off the humidity. What are the dimensions on your tree?

[MattA]

Hey Ash,

Its been many years since i sat & read thru the guidelines for choosing a pot but what you outlined seems about right from my scratchy memory banks... But they are just guides..Shape, form & texture... I really cant explain how i choose a pot to match a tree, I just sit them together & see if they agree to be wedded.

Since I have started making pots I have become much more aware of the pot when i look at trees in books or online and ask myself, does it work? why or why not? what could look better? etc etc Often it is something as simple as changing from glazed to unglazed, different feet or rim &

To my eye, far too many use glazed pots when unglazed would be far better suited. I also dislike the use of freeform pots to conceal faults that would be made more obvious in regular shaped pots. My 1cent opinion

Matt

[Bretts]

You are very right Matt but I kinda like to understand what my brain is thinking when it sees a pot working with a tree.
Being an armature pot maker I would highly recommend absorbing all that the link above explains.
Just as with bonsai the pot needs to tell a story that makes sense. It is no good having a digital watch on the wrist of a cowboy. Understanding that the belly of a pots curve being lower creates weight may not work with a pot that has light feet.
Although understanding this may allow you to find a way to have a low belly with light feet

[Tony Bebb]

As good as this article is I am suprised it is not more widley known in the bonsai comunity so here is the link agian
http://www.bonsai-keramik.com/en/teorie.html

That would have to be the most detailed and informative article I have ever read on any subject. Outstanding
From the basics we learn to the knowledge we gather, that covers everything.
I would recommend that article to anyone, and I will be saving the link.

Thanks Bretts

[MattA]

I gave up trying to understand what my brain thinks, thats a nightmare headache in the making

I too found the link fascinating, both as a pot making beginner and as a grower & lover of little trees. I read as much as I could before the phone went but have bookmarked it & know that I will be refering back to it constantly. The interplay between feet, rim & everything in between gives us lots of room to explore & manipulate the image portrayed.. balance & counterbalance...

The story told by pot & tree must combine harmoniously, tho individually they often tell seperate stories.

Matt

[Roger]

What a good thread. Some interesting ideas for those matching trees and pots. I'm delighted to see the increasing number of bonsai growers who make their own pots. It can help continue the artistic development of tree with compabible artistic sentiments in the pot.

A few notes of my experience may contribute to the thread. I primarily grow Aust native species. When they were getting to the point where ice cream and margarine containers weren't enough for them, I looked around for what would enhance the 'art' I was working on. At the time, only pots with east Asian styles were available and these simply clashed with the trees I was growing. I found viewers often just ignored the pot and couldn't tell you anything about how well tree and pot worked together. So learning to make pots became the focus for several years.

The pots I make now (or used to make until the NPBCA swallowed so much of my time!) are unglazed, oxide coloured (mostly). Surface texture is very important as is the pattern of the texture and depth of layering of textures and patterns. Keeping it simple, but something that the viewer will be enticed to examine while resting their eyes from the tree is good. I like a pot that tells a story that links with the tree. Pots need not be like picture frames, as some writers say; but then the range of pots with individual character is pretty limited in the shops so it's not surprising that the pot is often relegated to the unimportant.

There often seems to be a disconnect between the 'style' that potters like and those that a bonsai artist might like. Some potters like pots that can be wheel thrown and thus have radial symetry, though some will reshape them once they are thrown. Others like hand building, though I think these are much more challenging to make and to make work. They are like the literati of the potting world - decptively simple.

Personally I like what some call 'free form' pots. Engineering-precision of angles and symetry just don't work well in my mind, so I tend to avoid them. Not sure I followed Matt who said they were used to hide faults. I missed something there.

[MattA]

Hey Roger,

Thanks so much for your input, as a potter who has always inspired it is great to have your take on the subject... Sorry to hear you no longer have the time to make them as you once did.

My own path to clay started with a Cycad that needed something special, like you I could not find a pot suited to it amongst those commercially available and further could not find a potter to make it to my specs(some of that disconnect you speak of)... so the journey began, first with slabs (too much hassle) then handbuilding (soo much fun & soo many ways to do this) and finally stumbled upon carving (kurinuki) as the way for me. Deceptively simple...

With reagrds my comment on freeform pots, I should clarify... freeform slabs/trays are a great way to get the look of a stone slab without the extra weight given by the stone. However, the following is is a prime explanation of my coomment

I will be putting it into a freeform pot/ cresent shape and that should nicely hide the weak roots

I am off to play with some clay & oxide, I particularly love mixing different clays & oxides in a raw state then working into the form it dictates...

Matt