How to grow native pre-bonsai?

[Mickeyjaytee]

If you can link up with native Bonsai growers near you that will be a big boon to you as, unlike traditional species, the knowledge about them and how they respond to bonsai culture is somewhat less widely available, and in some cases unknown.

Not to discredit the many people across the country who have put years and decades into learning and trialling about them of course, but compared to traditional species like pine, juniper, elm or my own favourite maple it just isn’t as accessible.

Traditional species have been grown for many hundreds of years, every process is known and explained in detail. In comparison natives have been used for bonsai for less than 100 years certainly. The downside is knowledge is less absolute, the up side is native bonsai is really taking off and it’s people like you and other native bonsai enthusiasts trying things out that will be building that knowledge base

Reading online is good, watching YouTube videos can be visually helpful in understanding, but the benefit to working alongside someone at a local club who is experienced and knowledgeable about your tree and how it responds in your climate can’t be underestimated

Oh and you’re most welcome to take ‘arse biscuits’ into your vocabulary

Thanks Tim. I hit up both clubs in WA and looks like meetings are coming up so I’m excited to jump on in.

Traditional bonsai really is what drew me in but, I’m having the problems you said. That said, I’m glad I’ve been looking into natives lately and am completely taken by them.

You’re definitely right about working along side someone. At the moment I’m just flying solo and there’s only so far I can go!

I promise you I shall use ‘arse biscuits’ proudly

Edit: also yes, if you know of anyone close in Perth that’d be awesome stuff! Cheers mate

[TimS]

next time you do root work on a tree, perhaps take a few photos as you do it of what you did and then post them up in here.

No judgement at all; this way we can see how your thought process is working and the native bonsai growers (Rory lol) on here can maybe guide you with how they would have approached the same root system for comparison?

That way you can get a direct comparison on the tree you actually worked on rather than trying to apply from a totally different species that is also a native or whatever from an online video

Just an idea!

[Mickeyjaytee]

next time you do root work on a tree, perhaps take a few photos as you do it of what you did and then post them up in here.

No judgement at all; this way we can see how your thought process is working and the native bonsai growers (Rory lol) on here can maybe guide you with how they would have approached the same root system for comparison?

That way you can get a direct comparison on the tree you actually worked on rather than trying to apply from a totally different species that is also a native or whatever from an online video

Just an idea!

Yeah that’s a really good idea. Ok, I shall do that. Hopefully once it’s cools down later this evening I’ll have another shot and take some pics of the process. Thanks mate! I appreciate it

[Promethius]

This is gold, Rory. Cheers!

I really wish I could go back in time to two weeks ago, and leave just a tiny bit more of one particular melaleuca’s roots…

Put it in a water tray, if you’ve made it 2 weeks and it is still OK though, it will most likely be fine. They tell you pretty quick if you went too far! A water tray won’t hurt though for a bit.

Thanks R3. I’m embarrassed to admit that it was (is?) one I picked up from you.
I’ve had it in a water tray throughout; my fingers remain crossed. Along with the root work, there’s something funny about the mix, I think - no matter how much I washed the mix before potting and since, it keeps draining red grit. Maybe a bad batch of scoria? Scoria probably wasn’t needed for a Mel in development anyway .

This thread keeps getting better as a future reference - thanks Rory and MJT.

[treeman]

Mick.
I have repotted a plant and taken pictures for you. I hope they will help.

Text above pics...
This is a Lepto. It is just another plant. Nothing special. It was grown from seed and root pruned a couple of times according to my description in my first post.

20230122_101737.jpg

These are the tools needed..

20230122_101856.jpg

It is in a weakish state. It has not grown at all this year because it is completely root bound and has not been fed....

20230122_102000.jpg

First we cut off the bottom 2/3 of the roots with the axe...

20230122_102047.jpg

Then we slice off all around the root ball....

20230122_102137.jpg

We are left with this....

20230122_102559.jpg

Use the hook to tear away the top of the root ball exposing the ''nebari''......

20230122_102815.jpg

We are left with this.....The roots growing horizontally must be removed in search for better roots growing at a 45 degree angle down from the trunk.

20230122_103303.jpg

We often find a usable root buried deep in the root ball as is shown by the red arrow here...

20230122_103415.jpg

So we remove all roots above that and trim it a little because it is stronger than all the others....

20230122_103723.jpg

The bottom roots.......

20230122_103743.jpg

Are cut short...

20230122_103853.jpg

Ready to plant...

20230122_103939.jpg

Put a mound of potting mix in the pot....

20230122_104123.jpg

Sit the tree on top of it....

20230122_104135.jpg

And fill with soil to the correct level. The nebari should be covered at this stage.

20230122_104242.jpg

After a while you get this....(depending on the species)
Allow it all to grow and remove almost all but a few well placed branches next season.

20230122_104436.jpg

L. scoparium that has been neglected and lost some of it's lower branches...

20230122_105202.jpg

Use what you can and make a future literati type tree by removing the heavy braches and selecting a well placed one and correcting it with a bit of wire.....Leave some small branches around the cut to help it heal. They will be removed later. (always work with an eye on tomorrow not today)

20230122_105608.jpg

Cut roots and repot in the usual way. No need to put on a snorkel and do it under water or sit the plant on a tray of water or other exotic techniques. No need to wash roots. In fact I would advise against it. In general there is no difference between natives and any other plant.

20230122_110030.jpg

[Mickeyjaytee]

Thanks treeman, that is perfect and so easy to follow. I greatly appreciate the time you spent to do that! I’ll follow along and give it a go later tonight when it cools down.

The plants I did yesterday don’t seem to be looking sick as of yet but, I understand it could take some time. Fingers crossed they survive!

Thanks mate I definitely have more confidence to get this done!

Edit: one quick question. How do I wire the plant in place so it doesn’t move around too much in a black plastic pot? Unsure! My small plants I did yesterday are either leaning or have fallen on their sides

[TimS]

Treeman just body slamming the thread here, couldn't have put together a better example myself of the entire process. 11/10. Have yourself a bundaberg ginger beer or zesty drink of your choice and a curly wurly for that one and put it on my 'Treeman' tab for next time i'm buying plants from you though really i'm just growing JM and prunus mume these days so unless you are offloading any of those it might be a while until i settle the zesty drink/ curly wurly tab.

[Rory]

Great photos of a repot from Treeman.
One thing I wouldn't do, is to remove that much foliage from the repot. Like many nursery growers, Mike probably has a lot of stock they churn through and gets very professional results quicker because of his strict methods. I'm a little more reluctant. If it were mine and the tree meant a lot to me, I wouldn't remove so much foliage looking at the before photo. But everyone has different methods. I would leave more foliage on to feed the tree, and reduce it later on when the tree regains its health.

Edit: one quick question. How do I wire the plant in place so it doesn’t move around too much in a black plastic pot? Unsure! My small plants I did yesterday are either leaning or have fallen on their sides

Anchor plant ties, or string or anything you have and tie it around the base of the trunk, and tie the other end to the bottom of the drainage slits. If it doesn't have slits, then just screw a hole with a screwdriver or nail through the lip of the plastic pot (say 1 cm below the top). Then use that hole as the other end to tie it through.
Do this from 3 different equal positions so its anchored in and can't move.

You wont need to have the plant ties / string on for long. Only a month at max so the new roots take hold. Or, if you've taken a lot of root off, and tree is very loose, then just leave it until the tree is rock solid.

TieDown.jpg

[Mickeyjaytee]

Thanks Rory, you have been a champ with your help and info, I really appreciate it. Looks like another quick trip to Bunnings for me! I can’t believe I don’t have any screws laying about

Tim - curly wurlys are just the bomb

[Rory]

Thanks Rory, you have been a champ with your help and info, I really appreciate it. Looks like another quick trip to Bunnings for me! I can’t believe I don’t have any screws laying about

Tim - curly wurlys are just the bomb

Anytime mate.

Just use the sharp tip of a knife to twist and then poke a hole through it. But keep the razor side away from your other hand in case you slip

….. and get Orchid pots!!
They have holes on the lips for anchoring and such,
The drainage is unbeatable. They have slots everywhere along the bottom and sides for perfect drainage while your trees are in the strong bulking up period.

[Mickeyjaytee]

Thanks Rory, you have been a champ with your help and info, I really appreciate it. Looks like another quick trip to Bunnings for me! I can’t believe I don’t have any screws laying about

Tim - curly wurlys are just the bomb

Anytime mate.

Just use the sharp tip of a knife to twist and then poke a hole through it. But keep the razor side away from your other hand in case you slip

….. and get Orchid pots!!
They have holes on the lips for anchoring and such,
The drainage is unbeatable. They have slots everywhere along the bottom and sides for perfect drainage while your trees are in the strong bulking up period.

Ok will do! I’ve been looking for orchid pots but, locally I can’t seem to find any. I had a look online but, I’m a little unsure what size is good and whose is a reliable site.

I’ll continue the search

[Promethius]

Try https://orchidsupplies.com.au/

[treeman]

Thanks treeman, that is perfect and so easy to follow. I greatly appreciate the time you spent to do that! I’ll follow along and give it a go later tonight when it cools down.

The plants I did yesterday don’t seem to be looking sick as of yet but, I understand it could take some time. Fingers crossed they survive!

Thanks mate I definitely have more confidence to get this done!

Edit: one quick question. How do I wire the plant in place so it doesn’t move around too much in a black plastic pot? Unsure! My small plants I did yesterday are either leaning or have fallen on their sides

No Problem. The easiest way for small plants is to use a bamboo stake thrust to the bottom of the pot a short way out from the the base of the tree and leaning in to touch it near the top then just use a bit of wire to fix it there. Job done. For larger top heavy trees do what Rory suggests. I melt holes near the top of the pot in 3 places and use 1mm wire.

[Mickeyjaytee]

Thanks Rory, you have been a champ with your help and info, I really appreciate it. Looks like another quick trip to Bunnings for me! I can’t believe I don’t have any screws laying about

Tim - curly wurlys are just the bomb

Anytime mate.

Just use the sharp tip of a knife to twist and then poke a hole through it. But keep the razor side away from your other hand in case you slip

….. and get Orchid pots!!
They have holes on the lips for anchoring and such,
The drainage is unbeatable. They have slots everywhere along the bottom and sides for perfect drainage while your trees are in the strong bulking up period.

Ok will do! I’ve been looking for orchid pots but, locally I can’t seem to find any. I had a look online but, I’m a little unsure what size is good and who is a reliable site.

I’ll continue the search

Whoops sorry, didn’t mean to bump this thread, I only meant to correct grammar haha. I need a degree to figure out these forums

Anyways I did a few more plants today. Less frustrated and hopefully successful. I did a few seedlings from this year so here’s hoping the little guys pull through.

Thanks again to everyone for the amazing advice and support! You all rock!

[Mickeyjaytee]

Hi Mickey,
Regarding the roots getting to deep; I plant the seedling/small nursery stock into a larger pot and place an old CD underneath. I trim the roots a little and then spread them out evenly to promote good nebari. I make sure that there is sufficient space around the outside of the CD for the spread out roots to grow down lower into the pot. This way excess roots are easily trimmed when re-potting and a good amount of spread out, shallow root mass is retained. If necessary I put a stake through the hole in the CD to support the tree temporarily. I also enlarge the drainage holes in the pot and then sink the pot into the ground so only about 1/4 of the pot is above ground level. It doesn't take long for the roots to grow down into the ground, especially if the tree has been put into a shallower plastic orchid pot. If you use an orchid pot the drainage holes are large enough so they don't have to be enlarged further.
Cheers, Frank.

Heya Frank,

On Saturday I went along to the bonsai club and a member mentioned an idea similar to the CD when planting out in the garden. I’m just wondering, how much space do you give the plant from the CD?

I plan on planting some natives out in the garden and use a floor tile to put underneath but, I’m unsure of how far from the plant this should be.

Any help would be awesome!