Thoughts on Collected Australian native material.

[hugh grant]

Hi all

I wanted to hear what peoples thoughts are about Aussie native collected material. You as the community of this forum and a collective of the bonsai community as a whole, would there would be interest to use native species if there were more collected Australian native material being used and utilised in Australia for bonsai?

Would love to hear your thoughts

regards,
Hugh

[kcpoole]

Yep
Advanced collected material is not available mostly but should be if collected responsibly.

Ken

[Rory]

Hi all

I wanted to hear what peoples thoughts are about Aussie native collected material. You as the community of this forum and a collective of the bonsai community as a whole, would there would be interest to use native species if there were more collected Australian native material being used and utilised in Australia for bonsai?

Hell .... yes.

[Elmar]

It's what got me into this business!
Love the Calls and Mells and Casuarinas and Hakeas! And I'm sure there's others I haven't even begun to look at.

I just lack the skill at the moment - and a club within less than 200Ks!


Cheers
Elmar

[Bougy Fan]

My only concern would be how much material would die ? I consider myself able to collect material proficiently but have a horrible success rate with natives. Figs, bougies, celtis, privet and numerous other species are very easy to successfully collect but I have had no luck with natives such as callis and mels. I love the trees but am not sure they are easily collectable.

[Brian]

I have tried various methods for collecting large trunked Banksia Serrata including digging out the rootball and also trenching around the tree and returning to collect it at a later date. They all died unfortunately.

[Watto]

Hugh - I believe there is a big market for Yamadori Australian native material. I have collected a few myself for a reasonable success rate. I understand the concerns of many in relation to the successful digging of these plants, but the more we do it the more knowledge we will obtain and thus the success rate will improve.

[PeterH]

Brian,

When do you dig these Banksia.

Regards,

Peter

[Brian]

it was spring time and on private property up Gippsland way.

[Josh]

Guys from the Vic native club have dug numerous natives with I would say a relatively good success rate. I've collected mels, callistemon and kunzea with good success. I'm in the process of putting some natives in the ground for a few years to be collected when mature. I think it is hard to find good material in the wild because the growth habits of our natives. Most collected trees have a long way to go after collecting to become bonsai. I planted costal tea trees in grow boxes and am surprised by their growth rate in a box. I plan to put more in soon and grow on. There is definitely a need for good quality yamadoori stock in natives

Josh.

[PeterH]

Brian,

My experience with collecting natives is to think opposite to what is generally excepted. That is that I will collect in my area in November,December when is warm and the tree is active and I leave as much foliage on as possible until it has re established itself in the pot.

Regards,

Peter

[fossil finder]

This is a great subject and one where there is diverse range of views even, probably, within the bonsai community. Those that have commercial benefit may find it difficult to differentiate between between places that are suitable to recover specimens and those that are not. It takes a certain amount of self dicipline to appreciate a beautiful specimen then move on to find a more appropriate one for retrieval.
Quiet apart from the legal ramifications of digging in say forests, national parks etc is the question of environmental impacts of our actions and how this reflects the bonsai community. We should never dig wild trees because they are merely a free source of material and we should have a basic understanding the plants biology so we can give it the best chance of survival.
I'm always scanning around for situations where there are plants that can be recovered prior to clearing. Many plants gfow on road verges or in drains where they wilĺ inevitably be graded or sprayed with herbicide. I recently drove through an area where hundreds of cypress pines, banksias integrefolia and marginata in the 500mm-2000mm range were being graded. In such cases it may pay to contact the council and ask if some can be recovered.
The viability of digging is another aspect we should consider. Many desirable subjects will have weak root systems, be growing out of a spljt between rocks or some other limit to how much root can be recovered. We should carefully check before we start digging. A common problem is the hardness of the soil so a good thing to do is check ground away from roots before commencing work on the tree itself.
If you plan to dig keep your tools in the car so you don't end up trying to dig with a stick or some other improvised digging tool. You need to keep plant alive so havd a crate, water etc on hand. I use gladwrap to crudely wrap the rootball or crate in as a measure to maintain moisture of the rootball. When you get it home process the plant straight away to give it the best chance of survival.

Sent from my SM-T530 using Tapatalk

[hugh grant]

My only concern would be how much material would die ? I consider myself able to collect material proficiently but have a horrible success rate with natives. Figs, bougies, celtis, privet and numerous other species are very easy to successfully collect but I have had no luck with natives such as callis and mels. I love the trees but am not sure they are easily collectable.

Mate, i hear your concern, when i collect now a days i always only collected if i have a very very sure chance of successful collection, to be honest this has come down to experimentation and still does as i we try new species, but once a knowledge of horticulture of the species and its growth cycles are monitored through out the seasons a reasonably good understanding of 'how' can be worked out.

Hugh - I believe there is a big market for Yamadori Australian native material. I have collected a few myself for a reasonable success rate. I understand the concerns of many in relation to the successful digging of these plants, but the more we do it the more knowledge we will obtain and thus the success rate will improve.

Couldnt agree more mate! knowledge is key. Its not a matter of they cannot be dig, its just knowing how. you have to know wht your collecting and how it can be done in order to have the most success.

Guys from the Vic native club have dug numerous natives with I would say a relatively good success rate. I've collected mels, callistemon and kunzea with good success. I'm in the process of putting some natives in the ground for a few years to be collected when mature. I think it is hard to find good material in the wild because the growth habits of our natives. Most collected trees have a long way to go after collecting to become bonsai. I planted costal tea trees in grow boxes and am surprised by their growth rate in a box. I plan to put more in soon and grow on. There is definitely a need for good quality yamadoori stock in natives

Josh.

Josh what do you mean by this exactly in regard to natives not being good material due to growth habit? would love to hear you elaborate on this.

Brian,

My experience with collecting natives is to think opposite to what is generally excepted. That is that I will collect in my area in November,December when is warm and the tree is active and I leave as much foliage on as possible until it has re established itself in the pot.

Regards,

Peter

This is really good info peter, from my experience this is very true!

This is a great subject and one where there is diverse range of views even, probably, within the bonsai community. Those that have commercial benefit may find it difficult to differentiate between between places that are suitable to recover specimens and those that are not. It takes a certain amount of self dicipline to appreciate a beautiful specimen then move on to find a more appropriate one for retrieval.
Quiet apart from the legal ramifications of digging in say forests, national parks etc is the question of environmental impacts of our actions and how this reflects the bonsai community. We should never dig wild trees because they are merely a free source of material and we should have a basic understanding the plants biology so we can give it the best chance of survival.
I'm always scanning around for situations where there are plants that can be recovered prior to clearing. Many plants gfow on road verges or in drains where they wilĺ inevitably be graded or sprayed with herbicide. I recently drove through an area where hundreds of cypress pines, banksias integrefolia and marginata in the 500mm-2000mm range were being graded. In such cases it may pay to contact the council and ask if some can be recovered.
The viability of digging is another aspect we should consider. Many desirable subjects will have weak root systems, be growing out of a spljt between rocks or some other limit to how much root can be recovered. We should carefully check before we start digging. A common problem is the hardness of the soil so a good thing to do is check ground away from roots before commencing work on the tree itself.
If you plan to dig keep your tools in the car so you don't end up trying to dig with a stick or some other improvised digging tool. You need to keep plant alive so havd a crate, water etc on hand. I use gladwrap to crudely wrap the rootball or crate in as a measure to maintain moisture of the rootball. When you get it home process the plant straight away to give it the best chance of survival.

Sent from my SM-T530 using Tapatalk

very true mate,
When it comes to collecting responsibility and sustainability is very important, there are a lot of trees out there but there are less worth collecting, and then when they are worth it, they may or may not be viable to be collected. understanding the tree, environment, horticulture are all very important when making a decision as to its collectability and probably success.


Im gald to hear there is a good response for the interest and apparent need for more collected native material, quality material though is key.

Hugh

[deepeetee]

Well you know my thoughts on this subject mate, but I'll share as I think this is a brilliant thread.
There is very little I can add to this thread that you already haven't shared.
I'm at the point where I've dabbled in an array of your typical bonsai specimen. However, day in day out i pass the most magnificent native trees, all the inspiration one needs.

To answer the question I think is between the lines. Yes I would most definitely spend my hard earned on Yamadori natives!!!! If we havent already dug some beauties

[Josh]

Hi Hugh,
I should have elaborated a bit more, sorry. In European countries you can go out and collect a 200-500 yr pine, juniper, cedar and put it a bonsai pot and within a very short period you have an A grade bonsai. Our trees that are 200-500 yrs old are 50-100 feet tall and dead straight or 20 foot across.
Don't get me wrong there is plenty of good/great stock out there but not like in Japan. Our Flora is very different to overseas. Some of the native members have some incredible coastal tea trees and I think these are as good as it gets in matching Juni or pines collected on a mountain in Japan.
Having said that I would love to get into some of the old forests in Tassie as I think there would be incredible stock in there.

There is definitely a need for native yamadoori particularly considering some species are difficult to collect. I would love to see a native specialist nursery to promote our own trees.

Josh.