Acer monspessulanum - any experience?

[lackhand]

Maples have always been some of my favorite trees, and I've been wanting one as a (pre)bonsai for quite a while now. I had a batch of Japanese maples growing from seed a few years back, and then somebody stole them off of my doorstep. Now I live in the desert where it's just too hot for Japanese maples to be really happy, and the word at my local club is that even the tridents suffer during the summer. All of that aside, I was about to order some tridents from Bill Valvanis' nursery, but he is out of stock for the year.

So in my search for maples that will actually live here, I found that acer monspessulanum (Montpellier maple) is supposed to do well in the heat and fairly drought resistant too. And it doesn't hurt that the leaves look a lot like trident maple, and they are used in Europe for bonsai. I have found a nursery I can get these from, but I'll have to have them shipped, and before I do that I wanted to see if anybody (especially in the hot and dry parts of Australia) has tried the Montpellier maple? A quick search of the site turned up the name a few times, but not much else. Any experience would be greatly appreciated.

[thoglette]

before I do that I wanted to see if anybody (especially in the hot and dry parts of Australia) has tried the Montpellier maple?

Not seen it here (quarantine at federal and state level) but I'll hunt. Your L. styraciflua is the best option (if not for mame) for "maple" like trees.

While London Plane (Platanus × acerifolia) do well here they have the same large leaves without the autumn colour.

Both are popular garden and street trees.

[Ces]

hey Lackhand,

Go for the liquidambar in my opinion. Called sweet gum over your way. Plane trees dont get the autumn colour and I think the white bark of sweet gum is more desirable than what plane trees have to offer. That is if you give up on maples that is.

If it helps, I live in Sydney and have found that tridents here need protection in the heat (but it did get to 116 F here in Jan a couple of times this year). And not to forget, there's a big hole in the ozone layer over Australia in summer, so even if it gets close to that hot where you are it might not be as bad for leaf scorch.

good luck with your search, mate.

Cheers,

Ces.

[lackhand]

Thanks for the tips, liquidambar might be worth a try, I know other club members have grown those. Tridents would probably need protection here from the heat.

The temperature reaches and exceeds 100°F (38°C), on average for 110 days of the year,[27] including most days from late May through to early September. Highs top 110 °F (43 °C) an average of 18 days during the year. On June 26, 1990, the temperature reached an all-time recorded high of 122 °F (50 °C).

That being said, there were some Japanese maples at our club show this weekend, so people are growing them too. Wonder what their setup is like? The search continues.

[Rory]

Perhaps very strong shade cloth, like a 40/60 combination might help if you put the maples under that during summer, so only letting in say, 40% of the sun, and giving only morning sun might help the Japanese maples there? Maybe they have a daily mister in the morning as well or something. It would be a shame to give up on the beautiful Japanese maples, I would try the shade cloth and misting perhaps, as this is what I needed for a long time with my Huon Pines, as they do NOT like the strong heat either. If you can't find that sort of shade cloth, you can always just double over say an 80/20, which would become a 60/40, then again would become a 40/60. I'd hate to have that problem myself, but good luck.

[lackhand]

I think shade cloth may be in my future, but I have my bench sitting under a fair-sized ash that offers good shade too. I'll be keeping a close eye out when it starts heating up though.

In the meantime, I have ordered my A monspessulanum and also thought I would share this one, from Walter Pall's collection. If it's good enough for him to work with and supposed to like my climate, I reckon it's worth a go.

[GavinG]

I haven't heard of it here - if it's happy in a hot dry climate it could be quite useful... Please keep us posted.

Gavin

[thoglette]

Not seen it here (quarantine at federal and state level) but I'll hunt.

ABC's Gardening Australia mentioned them in a Specimen Trees Factsheet back in 30/4/1999

In NSW also known as a "French Maple" and appear to be acceptable as a street tree in the Mid West Council NSW.

They are mentioned in along with Liquid amber and Sweet gum as possible street trees in Salisbury, SA

There was one in Brownhill Park SA in 2009 according to the national register of big trees. There are (or were) a few nurserys in Victoria listing them.

That they are used as street trees in South Australia (esp Salisbury) indicates a fair bit of heat/drought tolerance.nationalregisterofbigtrees

[thoglette]

Looking at heat tolerant maples, has anyone considered or used Florida Maple (A. floridanum ) or Box (or ash or elf or manitoba) maple A. negundo ?

[Grant Bowie]

The so called Desert ash (Fraxinus angustifolia) would be good for your climate.


viewtopic.php?f=129&t=4827&hilit=+ash

Grant

[lackhand]

Funny what you find out as you go, or just try things on your own. I have been told many times that ash are terrible trees for bonsai, and never to touch them. Glad nobody told you that Grant, because clearly it's not true! I've got a big one in the back yard that I may layer or take a cutting from.

Thoglette, French maple is the common name for A. monspessulanum. I agree, if they survive as street trees in hot areas, they seem like a good candidate. I just bumped a thread from Bretts with a root over rock negundo. I can't find anything on the floridanum as bonsai, but it might be worth a go too. I think with all the great cultivars of Japanese maple, and the popularity of tridents, a lot of other maples just get overlooked. I know I wouldn't be looking for others if the Japanese maples did better in my climate.

I decided to go ahead and try the monspessulanum out, and just got two of them. Pathetic little twigs for now, but we'll see what a good fertilizer regime can do to help that. Hopefully they will be nice bonsai in a few years.

[JR_J]

Hi Karl,
Good on you, give it a go with the Maple monspessulanum or Montpellier Maple - there are great examples out there!
We've got one for 30 years now, but it's over 40 years old and about 95cm high.
The other is a great one grown from a 1963 seedling and about the same hight.

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Hope this inspires you! Good luck

Cheers, Rudi

[lackhand]

Nice trees Rudi, thanks for sharing! Good to know there is somebody else working with these. I'll post pictures of my twigs soon. Only forty years to go!

[lackhand]

Alright, these really are twigs in pots, but here they are anyway. I'm really excited about them because I love maples, so it's nice to have some. So far they seem happy in the heat, and have grown lots of new leaves since their arrival.

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My plan is to develop one as a shohin so I can get to work on it soon, and let the other fatten up and grow into something bigger. Obviously both are a long ways from real bonsai, so it's a good thing I'll be around to enjoy them when they finally look nice . . . in 20-30 years.

The moss on the trunks needs removed, but it's a bit of a novelty as moss just doesn't grow here. At all. It should die by itself after another week or two.

The leaves seem like a nice size for bonsai, and I've read that they reduce well too, so my first impression is that these are great maples for hot climates. Another couple years will confirm that for sure.

[Beano]

Exciting! I'll be following these...