Shallow pot's tips

[Martin555]

Do these shallow pots need specific tree's or planting techniques?

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[legoman_iac]

Shallow pots need trees with shallow roots. Think people usually use them for forest plantings. Forests usually take a few years to reduce roots though I believe (bit of a forest novice myself, but started a few here with maples).

[Martin555]

Sounds good, Shibui dude has some fabulous forests, thanks.

[shibui]

Shallow pots can be a challenge to keep trees healthy with our hot summers.
I've had to move one of my older trident groups from a 1cm deep pot to a 4 cm deep pot as the trees suffered every year.

Potting mix is often mounded higher in shallow pots to give enough depth to hold the roots but mounding too much can give problems with potting mix eroding with watering and leaving roots uncovered.

Avoid trees with high water requirements like maples, crab apple.

[Martin555]

Thanks for the advice Shibui, I will be consulting you in a few weeks as to what plants or forests you have and recommend for these pots, atm I am amassing a few inexpensive starter plants and gaining experience with pre bonsai techniques and acquiring the tools.

Would a water bath help with the hydration issue's?

[Phil Rabl]

I love shallow pots. You have to keep an eye on your watering. Shallow pots have large surface areas, so you need to consider evaporation. Drying out can be a problem. Also, trees in a shallow pot typically have small root runs, so fertilising matters too. The small root run means the trees tend to grow slowly. Like most, I usually create a mound to increase the root run. I have maple, elm, privet, olive, cedar, juniper and a eucalypt in fairly/very shallow pots. They are all thriving.

[Martin555]

Thanks for that, I think the doming effect of piling the potting mix may help a forest display, bending perspective? as an absolute beginner I really do appreciate benefitting from the wisdom and experience of the members as to my specific issues, I do spend a few hours a day researching more general knowledge topics.

[shibui]

Would a water bath help with the hydration issue's?

Need to be very careful with potted plants sitting in water. A few species like being wet all the time - some Melaleucas, swamp cypress, willow, etc, but for most trees having constantly wet roots can be a death sentence.
I find gravel trays/ humidity trays - where the pot is sitting on gravel or sand, just above water is a much better option.

Even easier to avoid overly shallow pots in the first place.

[Martin555]

Thanks for that, the ones I got are 3cm deep and as well I only have a small growing area which is my lounge room which has a large sliding glass door and another large window and a large balcony outside the doors and I am quite prepared to water some trees 3 times a day,I also distill my own water for drinking and use that for my succulent collection which is just about complete so I will have to use the distiller more for the bonsai's or are they more tolerant of tap water, I also capture rainwater.

[Alan Peck]

Hi Martin,
Sounds like you are keen to start your collection. I wouldn't advise any beginner to start with group settings that your pots are suited to. Collecting the correct material can take a while with the range required in sizes and heights. Group settings or forests do require a landscape composition with differences in heights with soil and can include rock. Water erosion is not a problem because you need to cover everything with a combination of moss and gravel.
You say you have an area in your lounge room to keep them. !! Sorry to say this but keeping trees indoors will be heartbreaking for you over time as they progressively die if that's the only place you can keep them. Your balcony or outdoor space or garden is where you should be keeping any tree.
They are not indoor plants, they will need fresh air, sunlight and an outdoor environment simply because they are trees. It will not make any differance how big your windows are.
Source your material from Bonsai Nursery's as you first port of call.
If you want advise please join a club that will guide you forward with lots of experience in all the aspects you will need to start with the basics of tree care, techniques, watering, feeding, styling and species.
I wouldn't use distilled water as it is devoid of minerals. Tap water is fine, tank water/ rain water better.
I've seen beginners many times who are very keen overthink things. Take small steps and you will get there. Surround yourself with bonsai people, there is no substitute for practical work, observation and personal tuition.

[Martin555]

So you are saying that lights are useless and rotating plants does nothing, it is not always sunny outdoors, there are lots of tutorials about which plants can work indoors and how to do that, Aristotle — 'For the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by doing them.', mistakes do not scare me, not sure how buying 3 wonderful pots constitutes a reckless giant step either.

Have a look at this indoor setup and advice.
https://www.bonsaiempire.com/blog/grow- ... 20daylight.

[treeman]

and rotating plants does nothing

Rotating trees is very important. All the more so if they are growing near a structure and they have a dense form. Once every 2 weeks is about right.

[Martin555]

I was not saying rotating plants does nothing, I was responding to another reply and your quote was a small part of that response and is out of context.

[KIRKY]

Marin, nice pots, love your colour choices.
There are some plants that will grow well inside and can be made into bonsai.
The indoor example you posted with grow lights shows mostly Ficus trees which are great for indoor bonsai. The other indoor plant would be Jade (Portulacaria afra). These are very tolerant of indoor conditions and great starters for a beginner.
However, if you intend to expand that range to include Maples, Oaks, Tridents, Elms etc… these will need to be outside on your balcony. You may bring them indoors for a week or two AT MOST should you have a flowering tree or want to display and admire it indoors for a while. But any longer than that you risk death.
Mike’s advice about rotating plants is a valid one, not only for indoor plants but plants outside on balconies where light can be one directional, including walls or other buildings.
Cheers
Kirky.

[Rory]

Alan Peck knows bonsai. I would heed his advice and grow your trees outside. Otherwise you'll be fighting a never-ending battle of sickness and poor health trying to grow a tree inside.

Having said that, of course you can attempt growing trees inside, but I wouldn't recommend it either. Uusally with indoor attempts, people will over-water them and death usually results with the combination of lack of sun.

Shallow pots are beautiful I agree with Phil, as they can really make the tree look much larger and older. But I would never recommend someone using a shallow pot and then mounding the mix up over the roots to keep the rootball protected, just so it can be put into a shallow pot. If you have to do this, then reduce your rootball in yearly stages and use a deeper pot for the interim.
Shallow pots are best for shallow root systems. Unless you're growing a fig, constant watering of the root mound will expose the roots and then you aren't going to have root growth in the exposed air as much as you would with the roots protected under the mix. You'll end up with monsoon type root systems so you better make sure you're happy with the root system slowly being on display and not trying to promote more root growth at the base of the trunk.

Using a slow draining mix will usually be more beneficial for shallow pots obviously, because on hot and windy days, your tree will bbq in Australia with shallow pots. I usually have trees slightly over-potted for shallow pots, but also then you play a dangerous game of having to make sure the tree you are growing can handle being overpotted and have slower drainage as insurance. Like Shibui rightly says, there are just certain trees you should not be playing with shallow pots.... for example a Euc would be a probable death sentence for shallow pots.

However, if you prefer not to have a slower drainage mix, then use trees that are drought tolerant if you wnat to persist with shallow pots.
Banksia (species dependant) are usually good for shallow pots, but you have to make sure you don't allow the rootball to grow too dense and are consistently working the root system every year to allow the roots to feed the tree and not become too tight.
Casuarina/Eucalpytus/Leptospermum for example are trees that I would be worried about having shallow pots for.

Beackea, Banksia and Phebalium however, are really good material for shallow pots. They tolerate drought well, and recover very quickly if you've allowed them to get too dry. But with Banksia, I would continually cut back the foliage so it isn't pulling a lot of water out of the shallow pot on hot days.

Thats the real key.... is how fast the tree pulls water out of the pot on a regular day. On a hot and windy day that is going to be greatly increased. Therefore you want to either have the mix and amount of foliage on the tree at a good ratio so that its not dry at the end of a regular day to avoid death from hot and windy days with shallow pots.

.... side note. Rotating your trees is dependant on how much sun the bonsai gets from how well the sun line rotates around the tree. If the tree is against an object or not getting full sun, then you should be rotating them occasionally yes. Its not so much an issue if the tree is open and lets ample light into the entire structure.... but as we all know from experience, this usually doesn't happen as the tree can quickly grow a canopy that will shade one side a lot more than the other etc etc....