Kunzea Baxteri

[Mickeyjaytee]

Hi all,

I have this Kunzea baxteri that is probably my only bonsai looking bonsai and was considering repotting it into an actual bonsai pot. The plant itself is quite root bound and so dense it’s really hard to get water in especially in summer. I am wondering if it is too early to put it into the pot I have chosen? Early being should I downsize the pot it’s in now and waiting til next year before going into the pot I have chosen?

The reasoning behind this is perhaps I’d have to remove too much of the roots. With the roots I’m going to assume its going to be very compacted close to the trunk and I know barerooting a native seems to be a no-no so, would I remove the bottom roots, cut upwards and try spread the roots into fresh bonsai soil?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[BonsaiBobbie]

Nice pot... looking forward to seeing it in the pot.

I can't given appropriate advice, but here to see what others say as I have a number of these, they seem to do really well in the shade.

[Ryceman3]

Looks to me like there is plenty of opportunity to get it into the pot you’ve chosen provided you have compact feeder roots close to the trunk. Your new pot seems wider so you don’t need to remove a lot from the outer edge of the root ball (other than to remove circling/tangled stuff) if you’re worried, and just focus on reducing the depth. Have a “back up” pot on hand if you get part way through and find you can’t make it work with your chosen pot. I would probably suggest just a shallower version of the plastic one you already have (you could even cut this one down) and then try next time. I think it will go though.
Let us know how you get on.

[shibui]

I’m going to assume its going to be very compacted close to the trunk and I know barerooting a native seems to be a no-no

I would not assume either of these things.
Pot grown native roots can go 2 ways - plenty of fine roots close to the trunk OR long roots with lots of fine roots out further that then head back and fill the entire pot with fibrous roots. It is very common for natives to have roots close to the trunk twisted, bend, curling and/or tangled. That's usually a legacy of the small plants growing in small tubes then being up-potted without untangling the roots. Much depends on where it was grown and how.

Many natives can be bare rooted with no problem. Ficus, some Melaleucas, Eucalypts, Alocasuarina and some Callistemon are a few that I've had no problem taking all or most old soil off the roots and root pruning really hard but that does not mean that all other natives can also be treated that way. I've had some Mels react badly to severe root pruning and others have no problem with 90% reduction and bare root so even within a family there can be big differences.
Most natives I have tried will tolerate way more root reduction than we usually assume.

I grew some K. baxterii some years ago but cannot recall which group they fit into as far as root pruning. @Patmet in Albany WA posted a nice K. baxterii viewtopic.php?p=300558#p300558 a couple of years ago so would be worth talking to re what might be possible with the species.

[Patmet]

Mate honestly I think you will be pretty safe transferring into that size pot from my experience with the species. It looks like the bonsai pot has got a bit of depth to it and it's quite wide compared to your plastic pot. You will be able to do that without removing a huge amount of roots. You mainly want to remove all the roots directly under the trunk and untangle and leave a good amount on the sides. No need to bare root the whole thing leave the innermost chunk under the root base in-tact.

Here's some pics of one I transferred into a bonsai pot from plastic pot for the first time recently. It's kicked back off with no problems. I don't think you will have to remove anywhere near as much as this.

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[Rory]

What shibui says about repotting natives is absolutely spot on.
I bare root every single species I grow, with I think one exception, which is a painful species and just an anomaly to this logic. I have only just got back into Callistemon though, so can’t concur with any long term experience with this genus, but most of the common genus I have no issues doing it to.
The benefit of bare rooting cannot be overstated. You will find any curl grubs or root-rot or problems with the stock by doing this.
From my experience with many aussie natives, there are so few species that bare rooting isn’t a good idea with, that it’s not worth mentioning.

The belief that you shouldn’t bare root natives might be coupled with root removal though. I don’t think I’ve ever lost a native from just bare rooting natives alone. It was when I’ve also root pruned that it can be detrimental. But this can be said of any genus. Some commonly grown genus will die back or die if you remove an excessive amount of root obviously.

But moving forward, Rycemans advice of simply reducing the depth of the training pot is the better approach on my experience. I do this as well, and then after a year or two with the tree comfortable in its shallower pot, you can then move on to a bonsai pot. Patience.

I no longer treat my natives ruthlessly. I have invested a lot of my time into my preferred older material, thus I’m not going to take a chance and reduce a heavy amount of root just to place it into a bonsai pot.

Even when I first work nursery natives, they inevitably are always exactly as shibui describes them. The active fibrous root is often at the outer ends or has wrapped around and around and back into the main root ball because of slip potting. Or often it’s very compact and close to the main trunk depending often on the genus. This is also why from my experience that some genus are just so much better adapted to bonsai because of their propensity to constantly push out fine root close to the trunk.

With my first repot from nursery material, I do not remove or focus on root removal. It’s simply root entanglement and placing the roots in a gradual radial spray that I concentrate on. Next repot would be the first root reduction. It is this root reduction that you have to be cunning with. If it’s material that appears only has fibrous root on the outer long roots, then I usually cutback half of these roots to try and promote new growth closer to the trunk, but keep the other half of the uncut roots wrapped at the base to keep the tree healthy while it feeds the newly severed roots.

But I definitely would disagree that you shouldn’t carefully bare root because of fear of die back. Even my Leptospermum scopariums I have bare rooted very carefully, and they’ve survived. But the main issue with bare rooting is the level of care in how this is approached that is the difference between severe dieback and death or no issues. Many roots are stripped or damaged if you handle them too roughly. In bare roooting there is always going to be a fair degree of root damage to the tree, because you’re bending and stretching the roots. It is usually the damage to the start of the roots that results in the misconception that bare rooting natives is a bad idea. If the material isn’t significantly pot bound, then bare rooting usually isn’t usually a problem. It’s more so the level or root damage or root removal that is the problem.

[Mickeyjaytee]

Geez thanks for all in detailed replies everyone. I really do appreciate it! I’ll give it a go and be careful. Hopefully all goes well. I’ve had bad luck with natives and it’s most likely due to being new and just having that lack of experience and knowing what to do.

Glad I asked on here. You all rock!

@Pat you always have the best looking bonsai! You have yourself a fan

[dansai]

Pull it out the pot and post a pic. That is if you haven't already done the repot. You can get more definitive advise on your particular tree that way.

What Shibui, Pat and Rory have said I agree with. I have also seen plenty of heavily root bound trees where there is no choice but to be a little bit ruthless. I usually buy younger stock now and work the roots similar to how Rory outlines and then grow it on so I know I have good roots to keep working. I usually have to do quite a bit of root surgery of older nursery material and find many problems hidden deep in the core. Starting young gets you a much better tree quicker than the setback, or loss, of older stock with poorly managed roots. Unless you can source material from someone that has done this work before you (other Bonsai growers or nurseries), it is worth investing the time yourself and ensuring you have a superior tree that will have longevity.

[Ryceman3]

… I usually buy younger stock now and work the roots similar to how Rory outlines and then grow it on so I know I have good roots to keep working… Starting young gets you a much better tree quicker than the setback, or loss, of older stock with poorly managed roots. Unless you can source material from someone that has done this work before you (other Bonsai growers or nurseries), it is worth investing the time yourself and ensuring you have a superior tree that will have longevity.

This. 100% …
It’s the main reason I think growing from seed to create bonsai isn’t as time consuming as some think. The amount of time it can take to develop roots on an established tree to make it usable as a bonsai (fit in a pot and be able to exist there) and the risk of death in the process can be a bitter pill which is avoided by starting at the beginning.

[CalebH]

… I usually buy younger stock now and work the roots similar to how Rory outlines and then grow it on so I know I have good roots to keep working… Starting young gets you a much better tree quicker than the setback, or loss, of older stock with poorly managed roots. Unless you can source material from someone that has done this work before you (other Bonsai growers or nurseries), it is worth investing the time yourself and ensuring you have a superior tree that will have longevity.

This. 100% …
It’s the main reason I think growing from seed to create bonsai isn’t as time consuming as some think. The amount of time it can take to develop roots on an established tree to make it usable as a bonsai (fit in a pot and be able to exist there) and the risk of death in the process can be a bitter pill which is avoided by starting at the beginning.

Let me ask you. What is the risk of death in this process? I mean how many plants become adults from 100 seeds.

[Ryceman3]

… I usually buy younger stock now and work the roots similar to how Rory outlines and then grow it on so I know I have good roots to keep working… Starting young gets you a much better tree quicker than the setback, or loss, of older stock with poorly managed roots. Unless you can source material from someone that has done this work before you (other Bonsai growers or nurseries), it is worth investing the time yourself and ensuring you have a superior tree that will have longevity.

This. 100% …
It’s the main reason I think growing from seed to create bonsai isn’t as time consuming as some think. The amount of time it can take to develop roots on an established tree to make it usable as a bonsai (fit in a pot and be able to exist there) and the risk of death in the process can be a bitter pill which is avoided by starting at the beginning.

Let me ask you. What is the risk of death in this process? I mean how many plants become adults from 100 seeds.

How many plants become adults from 100 seeds would be a direct result of how much care is put into tending them in conjunction with the viability of the seed. Of all the seeds I’ve sown and have germinated with the specific end goal of bonsai, I would conservatively guess probably 85%… I only understood the second part of your question and I don’t really know how it relates to my previous post, but that would be my guess… apologies to the OP as I think this is now moving off topic!

[Mickeyjaytee]

Thanks for more replies everyone. I’ll post some pics soon. Just have the flu atm and don’t have the strength to go outside and do it. I’ll keep u posted!

[Mickeyjaytee]

Ok so repotting is done. Fingers crossed it lives. I stuffed up and planted it too far back in the pot and tbh it’s leaning forward too much

Too late to readjust? Should I wait til next year? It looks a lot skinnier than it is in the pic. Perhaps I should’ve used a smaller pot too

[BonsaiBobbie]

Ok so repotting is done. Fingers crossed it lives. I stuffed up and planted it too far back in the pot and tbh it’s leaning forward too much

Too late to readjust? Should I wait til next year? It looks a lot skinnier than it is in the pic. Perhaps I should’ve used a smaller pot too

When did you repot?

The general advice I've read before is that in these circumstances it isn't too late to repot if you need to move. I've certainly done the same for other plants. For a Kunzea, I can't say.

In terms of the pot being too big, I guess the decision is how much development are you still hoping for versus refinement? I think it it should be ok to be slightly overpotted here for growth, unless you are after something different.

[Mickeyjaytee]

Ok so repotting is done. Fingers crossed it lives. I stuffed up and planted it too far back in the pot and tbh it’s leaning forward too much

Too late to readjust? Should I wait til next year? It looks a lot skinnier than it is in the pic. Perhaps I should’ve used a smaller pot too

When did you repot?

The general advice I've read before is that in these circumstances it isn't too late to repot if you need to move. I've certainly done the same for other plants. For a Kunzea, I can't say.

In terms of the pot being too big, I guess the decision is how much development are you still hoping for versus refinement? I think it it should be ok to be slightly overpotted here for growth, unless you are after something different.

I think the pot size is relatively ok, not too bad. The picture really didn’t do it any justice. I repotted yesterday. Had a look at it then and it’s slanted forward too much, I wasn’t paying attention when I tightened the wires to hold it in place. It’s also set too far back in the pot as apparent in the photo.

Do you think it’d be ok to quickly repot again the next day or will it need a few seasons of recovery?

Thanks so much for the reply!