Japanese White Pine Techniques

Forum for discussion of Pines, Junipers, Cedar etc as bonsai.
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by FEX »

Grant Bowie wrote:
FEX wrote:hi, i bought a few jwp's on ebay, not sure if they are Jwp or not, was told they are a different variety, they do not look like my older 18 yr, Jwp,these have darker and longer,thinner needles,, i doub't ,the needles will change over time?, that is, look like the lighter,shorter needles in the top. pictures ,(Grant's), although i have read, it takes several years for a Jwp to start looking like its parent tree... can anybody id this little 3 yr old,,.is it a Jwp?, or not.... i have 5 of these, i hope they are.....cheers...joe
Could still be JWP. My memory is that they were very shaggy when young.

Grant
Thanks for the info, Grant..a few more years , might change the appearance, there is a little white pine somewhere on this site with a battery for size comparison in the pot, that one was like my older JWP, both are about the same age, so who knows :fc: , still, if they turn out to be CWP's, they will make nice bonsai eventually.. :yes: Joe
Last edited by FEX on September 23rd, 2011, 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by LLK »

it takes several years for a Jwp to start looking like its parent tree... can anybody id this little 3 yr old,,.is it a Jwp?, or not.... i have 5 of these, i hope they are.....cheers...joe
Joe, you don't mention whether your trees are 5-needle pines. I tried to count the needles in your pics, but can't make it out.

Lisa
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by FEX »

nishiki3 wrote:they look like my pinus armandii. i will post photos of them tomorrow
photos would be geat to compare,,cheers..Joe
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by NBPCA »

The pictures I am using in this thread are of the Green Five Needle Pine at the collection.

Follow its story here.viewtopic.php?f=112&t=4456

Grant
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by FEX »

LLK wrote:
it takes several years for a Jwp to start looking like its parent tree... can anybody id this little 3 yr old,,.is it a Jwp?, or not.... i have 5 of these, i hope they are.....cheers...joe
Joe, you don't mention whether your trees are 5-needle pines. I tried to count the needles in your pics, but can't make it out.

Lisa
hi,lisa,, checked today,, there are five needles at each point.. thanks..Joe
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by LLK »

Hi Joe,
If they have 5 needles that's at least a small step towards the confirmation that they are indeed White Pines, Japanese, Chinese (P. armandii), Korean, American, or....??
Lisa
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by Dumper »

LLK

It is a white pine. u can tell from the buds. i'll post some pic soon. just need to find my phone.

John
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by Dumper »

What i know about jwp is that those that are grown from seeds are suppose to have shorter and harder green needles

most of the grafted varierty of jwp has silver blue-ish green needle. some can be long and some can be short

the other pic i have is a armandii. needles are blue-ish and longer. but i cut it off during winter just to see if the rumor is true or not. The rumor says that needle of the white pine cannot be cut because the whole branch will die back. that seems to be a fake rumor cause the one i cut is growing.

John
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by FEX »

Dumper wrote:What i know about jwp is that those that are grown from seeds are suppose to have shorter and harder green needles

most of the grafted varierty of jwp has silver blue-ish green needle. some can be long and some can be short

the other pic i have is a armandii. needles are blue-ish and longer. but i cut it off during winter just to see if the rumor is true or not. The rumor says that needle of the white pine cannot be cut because the whole branch will die back. that seems to be a fake rumor cause the one i cut is growing.

John
thanks for the pics,John, i'm still not sure which pine mine are,the needles don't seem blueish to me,, about the needle cutting rumor,, i trimmed back about an inch off the needles, on all my little white pines, no problems there..I am posting some close up's, if that can help anyone i.d these pines,, cheers..Joe :yes:
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by NBPCA »

Green FNP in Spring Growth Sept 2011.JPG
Candle to be snapped.JPG
Gripping the tip.JPG
Tip snapped off leaving enough sets of needles.JPG
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Last edited by NBPCA on September 28th, 2011, 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by NBPCA »

The snapping of the tips shortens the growth and encourages the weaker growth elsewhere to catch up. The next most vigorous sets of candles can be snapped in another week or ten days and probably the weakest areas will not be snapped at all.

Notes on this tree. As this tree was only potted for the first time recently last autumn we did not cut or remove the old needles. This was done to ensure the maximum of foliage was left on the tree to encourage it to settle into its new pot and with the maximum of foliage encourage the maximum growth of roots. We will take off the remaining needles from 2 years ago this week.(some of these have already fallen off or dropped some of the needles from each bundle of five needles)

We will take off last years needles in autumn 2012. The tree should be nicley settled by then and vigorous. The removal of old needles then will keep the tree open and airy and keep weaker buds strong by allowing light into them.

This coming January we will do a further cut back of the candles we have just snapped. This will shorten the overall growth/expansion of the tree and new buds will form in a few weeks after that.

Grant
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by daiviet_nguyen »

Please note that this article is not mine. It is the copy of the white pine section from an article titled Pine Training Achieving Balance and Growth Energy Distribution distributed by BONSAI SOCIETY OF VICTORIA to members more than 10 years ago. This article has black pine and white pine along side. I just copied out the white pine column.

I have double checked this copy. There is no typing or omission mistake. Some months appear to have no activities.

**** Copy of partial article follows ****

September

October

Pot in humid, wet Spring weather. (Cloudy days best). Transplanting at this time slows needle growth which is a benefit.

November

Candle pinch. First strong buds. Weak ones later (opposite to black pines). Pinch before needles appear leaving 1/4 to 1/2 of original candle.

December

Prune shoots when growth has stopped, before needles come out fully. Concentrate on strong shoots, leave 4 or 5 groups of needles. (Don't cut back to base like black pines)

January/February

March

Autumn prune. Cut old needles with scissors in the stronger areas.

April

Bud removal. Leave 2 buds. Take strong buds on strong branches. Take weak buds or weak branches to achieve balance.

May/June

June/July

Winter needle cutting. Before buds unfold, cut out old needles progressively with scissors. (On White Pine pulling can tear and damage the tree.) Remove needles where growth is to be limited.

July/August

Branch Pruning.

July

Wiring & shaping.

---------

NOTES:
  • Above collated by Jeffry Farman from cross referencing growing articles by Katsuto Sakurai, Seiji Yoshida, Yoshiaki Kato, John Naka, Hideki Nakayasu, Kazuo Oishi and Takeshita Yosiaki.
  • Times given are only approximate and depend on the seasons.
  • To achieve balance this whole procedure needs to be followed in a disciplined way for at least 2-3 growing seasons, once basic tree is established, although complete candle removal in December is only practiced every second or third year.
Last edited by daiviet_nguyen on September 28th, 2011, 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by NBPCA »

Hi all,

Its one week later and a lot of candles have elongated over the last week.
One week later and more elongation.JPG
Close up after candle snapping.JPG
After 2nd round of candle snapping.JPG
I will have a look in another week or so.

If you snapped back some candles last week but they still look a bit long I have not found it a problem to snap it again in the second round.

Don't forget that we will do a scissor trim in January or so as well.

Grant
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by Dutchie_Boy »

Thanks for the info guys, I'm just starting with the Japanese White Pines, and enjoying this article immensely.

Daiviet - Thanks for the post, quite useful. I have both Japaneses Black and White Plines, is there any chance of you posting the whole Bonsai Society of Victoria article or a link to it.

Thanks

Mark
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Re: Japanese White Pine Techniques

Post by NBPCA »

Not much has happened over the last 8 days. I have snapped a few candles and that is all.

Most elongation of candles has ceased and the needles are now starting to elongate. I will do no more snapping of candles now.

The next step will be a scissor cut back around 1st of January here. Timing may vary depending on where you live.

I have left some branchelets on the tree that may be used for in arching/grafting purposes later on as we compact the tree.
IMG_4313 - Copy.JPG
IMG_4314 - Copy.JPG
IMG_4315 - Copy.JPG
Grant
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