Penjing or Bonsai Chinese Elm

[alpineart]

This is another root cutting salvage 2 years ago from the same compost /scrap heap .Iput this together in about 1 hour yesterday . Is it a Bonsai or is it Penjing

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[alpineart]

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Looking forward to some serious answers on this one .

Cheers Alpineart

[siddhar]

The art of Bonsai. An art in its own right and all art is stylized to some degree. In many ways the difference between Chinese and Japanese bonsai can be likened to the difference between poetry and prose. The first seems more heightened, more stylized, while prose superficially imparts a feeling of "naturalness".

[chrisatrocky]

Penjing or Bonsai? What do you want it to be? If you lived in Korea it would be called Bunjae, in Vietnam Cay cahn. Believe it or not! The phase Bonsai only appeared in Japan after commercial nurseries started, before this Bonsai was known as Penjing in Japan. Which is understandable, because these nurseries were growing potted trees (Bonsai) for the art of Penjing, Hence, the phase Bonsai nursery. In Australia the art is known as Bonsai. So what ever you call it it still going to be a nice little cascade elm.

Chris.

[nealweb]

Well who gives a flying fig! I like your cascading elm!! whatever you call it

[Handy Mick]

I agree with Chris on the name, I think now they all mean the same thing in different countrys and each country has a different style, like cloths.
But in the way us western type think today I believe it to be bonsai, if you put a rock in there or a small temple or bridge or a stone creek, then it would be penjing.

Mick

[alpineart]

Hi Guys , some interesting feedback , i actually made this after reading Grant Bowie's 2 previous posts , inspired by the pics of the Penjing . I was a neglected root cutting that continually died back , a little care from now on and it should turn into a nice little ???.

Cheers Alpineart

[Terry]

Like alpine,I have a similar elm root that I have begun to train this spring. it is not how it is described but whether it is visually appealing. Thank god we all have our own likes and dislikes.
Feel free to give tips, hints, comments that may help it's progression

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[Pup]

The WORD Bonsai first appeared in the Meiji period 1868-1912 the Emperor directed that the word Bonsai, be used to discribe the art of punsai which he had trouble pronouncing.

That is why the Japanese invented Bonsai, and the Chinese invented Penjing as the western world know them .

Now for the inevitable

Pup

[chrisatrocky]

Well actually the Chinese phrase was Penzai which is Chinese not punsai which was then translated into Japanese Bonsai. they just went from using the Chinese pronuonciation to the Japanese. It may well have been the emporer at the time who instigated the change of pronuonciation. however it doesn't alter the fact that the art was known as penjing in Japan up to that point and only been known as bonsai in Japan for about 150 years. And up until about the 1940's bonsai in Japan looked very similar to penjing in China.

[Philippe Tot]

I've seen so many debates about this topic and many are always getting lost under one word. As silly as it sounds.

So I wish to jump in before more precious time is wasted on this.

Art is Art. Art is based on the personal experiance.

So for all lost in Technicalities,I wish to finaly clear the dust and put this one to bed....

So here it is.

Penzai, is NOT Penjing. This has been inaccurately spread all over the internet and all are taking it as fact. Just cause Wikipedia states something, does not mean in any way shape or form its accurate.

You must have a clear mind if you are to see through the smoke..

'Penzai' - In China is 'NOT' artistic at all or any skill applied

Its the term in Chinese for an ordinary pot plant. So Flower Power or Any other Plant Nursery/Stockist to a Chinese is full of Penzai.

Penjing- Yes, translates into Tray scenery.

But is not a literal translation. Penjing is not only landscape. Just As Bonsai is not just a 'Pot plant'.

Penjing is is 1 tree , multiples or landscape arrangements. Themes with poetic and artistic skill applied. Based on the Chinese Experiance.

And the Japanese Term of Literati is Bunjin as you are most def aware. To a Chinese, if a Japanese was to say the term Bunjin with their accent, sounds an awful lot like 'Penjing' in Chinese (did you think this was a coincidence?)

And as you all know, Bunjin is the style in Japanese describe as formless...

Join the dots.

So

Penzai is Penzai, Penjing is Penjing from China with Chinese perspectives & Bonsai is Bonsai with the Japanese ones.

But rememeber,

As long as you respect, cultivate your admirmation in nature and it brings you joy.

My friends , This is all you will ever need.

Warmest regards,

Philippe Tot

[Andrew F]

But rememeber,

As long as you respect, cultivate your admirmation in nature and it brings you joy.

My friends , This is all you will ever need.

Warmest regards,

Philippe Tot

[alpineart]

Hi Guys the purpose for posting this topic was to learn a little more and hope some others may learn as well . "The more i learn the less i think i know" applies to me , and it good to see and read all these comment . Thanks for all the replies .

Happy Bonsai and or Penjing

Cheers Alpineart

[chrisatrocky]

Penzai, is NOT Penjing. This has been inaccurately spread all over the internet and all are taking it as fact. Just cause Wikipedia states something, does not mean in any way shape or form its accurate.

You must have a clear mind if you are to see through the smoke..

'Penzai' - In China is 'NOT' artistic at all or any skill applied

Its the term in Chinese for an ordinary pot plant. So Flower Power or Any other Plant Nursery/Stockist to a Chinese is full of Penzai.

That's right, but nobody said Penzai was Penjing.

all I have been trying to say is it doesn't matter what you call it its all the same art.