Doing what I told others not to!

[Bretts]

This is a trident that was given to me by another member after they had enough of trying to solve the disease issue.
Two things I have stated to people in dealing with this disease is keep in plenty of Sun and do not defoliate.
Some time into the growing season I was treating with bravo which I did in the shade house. Eventually out of slackness and lack of room I did not put it back into full sun and it has been in the shade house for some time.
It did return to some what normal growth a little while back after treatment but I have let it dry out occasionally as the shade house is the low care area and it seems the disease is coming back a little combined with some normal leaf burn (not the disease necrosis that can look like leaf burn)
Anyway for the last week or so I have been contemplating cutting back hard as I had advised others not too. I think this is somewhat risky But feel with dedicated care I understand enough to get away with this on this trident at the moment and accept that this tree can take no joke after this and if I get things wrong it may die.
At first I thought of only cutting back hard but in the end decided I wanted to start a fresh by totally defoliating the tree.
For any chance of the new leaves coming out unaffected I will need to treat with Bravo at least once a week which I don't like doing as it is a nasty chemical. In any event by the end of the season I will swap to mancozeb which theoretical should do the same job and is less toxic.

I am pretty over any opinions that this issue is down to some improper care or that it could be solved with a change in care so I will do my best to ignore any such comments but pre-empt them by stating that this tree as well as the couple others still affected has gone through various soil mixes and care techniques that all my other trees have gone through with no ill affects but these couple persist in showing this issue.
Also a picture of the soil surface after I gave it a blast to remove any old debri that could harbour fungus, now showing the vigorous root growth of this freshly repotted tree that would just not be happening on a tree that was ill cared for.

The best thing about night shift is that you get to drink in the morning Even though I have no work tomorrow this post has started to take up too much of my drinking time

trident 005.jpg

trident 008.jpg

trident 009.jpg

trident 010.jpg

trident 018.jpg

trident 023.jpg

[bodhidharma]

Looking great Bretts. If it carks it at least you have a good shot of it I have one that does exactly what yours does year after year. It lives on but never really flourishes no matter what you do with it. I am wondering if it is a characteristic or a tree born with a defect in its genetics

[EdwardH]

Would it be practical to take some leave and soil samples to the local horticulturist to get them tested?
At least then you would know exactly what you are dealing with and how to treat it. Good luck I hope that your tree survives and thrives.

[makro]

hope the tree survives...

on a side note, nice pink goggles in the 1st pic

[kcpoole]

hope the tree survives...

on a side note, nice pink goggles in the 1st pic

they are Bretts "Morning after" Goggles

Interesting to see how this goes Brett. I assume that whatever afflicts the tree is not passed on to others nearby?

Ken

[Bretts]

Looking great Bretts. If it carks it at least you have a good shot of it I have one that does exactly what yours does year after year. It lives on but never really flourishes no matter what you do with it. I am wondering if it is a characteristic or a tree born with a defect in its genetics

That's pretty much as I am thinking Bodi.

You bring up some other interesting aspects as well . My limited knowledge suggests that some plant mutations can be caused by viral infections. (such as variegated leaves) This infection I am dealing with tends to create very close inter nodes. This may account for the very good root growth that some people have stated with this issue. For the uninitiated "Lots of tips means lots of Auxin which means lots of root growth"
If this disease could be (for lack of better words) controlled as a long term feature then imagine the result

Although I have no reason to disagree that these trees are genetically weak, my feeling is that the trees that will not recover are simply trees that have been overly weak at the time of infection which has allowed the disease to gain the upper hand (systemically with this disease It seems) past the point of natural control.
But I think only time will tell.

Thanks

[Dario]

Hey Brett, one a side note and just for my own curiosity, what safety gear do you use when applying something as toxic as Bravo?
I only ask because I was taught to protect your ears, eyes, nose and mouth as well as your largest organ...your skin!
I am sure you are looking after yourself and your family.
Cheers, Dario.

[Bretts]

Would it be practical to take some leave and soil samples to the local horticulturist to get them tested?
At least then you would know exactly what you are dealing with and how to treat it. Good luck I hope that your tree survives and thrives.

Hi Edward
In past discussions I have mentioned how the previous owner did get a professional pathology test done through a friend working at a botanical garden. The previous owner was happy to walk away with the diagnosis of Fungus treat with Bravo. What I found out was that Bravo does not kill the fungus but simply works as a protect-ant, in that it inhibits the fungus spores from spreading from infected leaves/tissue to fresh leaves/tissue.
At a later date with emails deleted and such the actual name of the fungus was lost. It would be great to give it an actual name but considering the cost of doing another test it seems that is lost for now.
Thanks

[Bretts]

hope the tree survives...

on a side note, nice pink goggles in the 1st pic

they are Bretts "Morning after" Goggles

Interesting to see how this goes Brett. I assume that whatever afflicts the tree is not passed on to others nearby?

Ken

The way things are going today Ken they would be my night after Goggles I love it when things are turned on thier head on occasions
Hmm the way things are going I might have to get Danica to head down the street and get me some more half price Lucky Budda beer

002.jpg

From all understanding it seems this affliction (side note of fact, a certain species of fungus spore is recorded as the fastest living thing when discharged from the parent, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4gK5Kuy1bE ) is quite easily transferable but as when this first showed itself after the break of the drought I found most of my collection affected to some degree and for that matter a good majority of feature trees around my yard/town then there is no real hiding from it that any quarantine would help. Yet It some how seemed like a good idea to leave it in the shade house this year when there was little room left on the benches.
I have seen collectors throw out material as soon as it shows signs of this affliction but to me there seems little use in that.
Chatting with Don DeLuca about this it seemed possible that the end result may just be that certain species that are affected would become more hassle than they are worth. He came to this conclusion with Juniper and spider might in his area.
It is funny In that I often find a spider might crawling on me when I stick my hands on a tree yet they don't seem to cause any damage worth worrying about. Juniper included yet the climate from Don to myself is very similar?

I am interested what happens from here too Ken I will keep you posted

[Bretts]

Hey Brett, one a side note and just for my own curiosity, what safety gear do you use when applying something as toxic as Bravo?
I only ask because I was taught to protect your ears, eyes, nose and mouth as well as your largest organ...your skin!
I am sure you are looking after yourself and your family.
Cheers, Dario.

Hi Dario,
I am sorry to say my safety precautions have dwindled.
Grant put it very elegantly in the past by saying, as best I remember, "You should cover from head to toe even when spraying water"
But I must say I got a little tired of putting on the overalls, chemical grade mask hat, shoes and gloves to spray for 2 minutes then showering and washing everything I had on separately.