Euc Sideroxylon 'Rosea' From Nursery Stock

[bonscythe]

Hi Trent,
I was under the assumption that most lignotubers were found under the soil level in nature, so I can't see why this would be harmful to bonsai (but I am just a novice!). Where did you hear this? I have a gum with the tuber out of the soil and a couple with it under and would like to know for future reference for repotting too.
Cheers - Pat

[EdwardH]

A general rule in horticulture is not to plant a tree/shrub lower than its original level, especially eucalyps and banksia. Most of this info comes from landscaping projects where the soil is often raised/lowered according to landscaping plans. In these instances the soil is often raised by a substantial amount - 0.5m or more. This oftens causes mature trees to die off over a period of 5 - 10 years. At a guess it is because the feeding roots close to the surface are burried so the tree is severely restricted in the amount of water and nutrients that it receives. Add to this the fact that in most cases the soil around the tree is also covered by cement or a shrub area and the tree struggles to get a decent drink or feed. To bury a tree a few centimetres lower has no ill effect also bonsai are generally well watered and fertilised so again no problem there.

[bodhidharma]

It is really interesting to read all the info about eucs. In Melbourne they respond a little differently. I have dealt mainly with candlebarks which i can collect from my property (we have 24 acres full of candlebarks). I can lift mature ones with correct preparation but have not successfully bonsaied one yet. We live in a very clayee area and after collecting them. and potting them up and leaving them to grow for a couple of years when i root prune and wash them of they cark it. I will keep at it but advice is sort and apreciated.

[FlyBri]

You say that you covered the lignotuber with extra soil to compensate for compacting which is completely understandable, only I once read that lignotubers should never be potted under the soil level as this can be harmful (somehow???)

I was under the assumption that most lignotubers were found under the soil level in nature, so I can't see why this would be harmful to bonsai (but I am just a novice!). Where did you hear this?

Gday folks!

Sorry for the delayed reply, but this one slipped past me.

In the Koreshoffs' book (I believe you now have a copy, Pat ) it is stated quite explicitly that a Euc's lignotuber should never be planted deeper or the tree will die. It goes a little like this: "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should the roots, trunk or lignotuber be planted deeper than the original level of the soil, otherwise the tree will surely die." As I have been playing with container grown Eucs for some time now, I take issue with the statement above, although I'm sure it does have a basis in reality.

I think that Edward is getting to the heart of the matter with his observations. It is my belief that a young and healthy Euc should handle a change in planting depth, so long as it is placed into a sufficiently well-drained soil mix. (Have a look at this thread for further discussion of the topic.)

I hope to update this thread soon...

Thanks.

Fly.

[EdwardH]

Hi Fly,

Like all things we live and learn. I spoke to Dorothy K. last month and was informed that you can easily reduce the leaves of G. robusta (silky oak) by defoliating in late spring, usually in mid Nov. This way the leaves stop growing before they reach full size as their dormant period is in summer. They stated in their book that these leaves could not be reduced there trim them to size.
Had I thought of it I would have asked her to write an updated version of said book so that her more recently learned knowledge is passed on.

[FlyBri]

[I hope to update this thread soon...

Gday folks!

Please find attached some pics of my Ironbark as it was just yesterday. The new growth and back-budding has provided me with numerous potential leaders, so I thought I might try a layer on this species.

E_Sideroxylon_Oct_09(1).jpg

E_Sideroxylon_Oct_09(2).jpg

E_Sideroxylon_Oct_09(3).jpg

E_Sideroxylon_Oct_09(4).jpg

E_Sideroxylon_Oct_09(5).jpg

E_Sideroxylon_Oct_09(6).jpg

While I am reasonably confident about the future of this layer, I am not sure whether I will reap the full benefits of the 'kilt' layer method, as the incomplete bark removal has meant that my wedges may have split the bark rather than separate it from the sapwood.

Updates to follow.

Thanks.

Fly.

PS: Please note that the layering pot/medium was well watered and wrapped in a plastic bag after the photoshoot: without the plastic bag, the medium will dry out too quickly too often.

[jwishbone]

very informative progression!

[EdwardH]

Hi Fly, how is your E. sideroxylon rosea progressing?

[FlyBri]

Hi Fly, how is your E. sideroxylon rosea progressing?

Gday Edward!

Thanks for asking, but I couldn't really use the term "progressing" to describe this one... Perhaps I'll do a hungover update next year.

Fly.

[FlyBri]

Perhaps I'll do a hungover update next year.

Gday folks!

As Edward has prompted me, I thought I would have a look at this rather ugly and neglected bit of pre-pre-Bonsai material. The air-layer failed at some stage, so I chopped and wired a new leader(s). However, the wired branches withered and died (I don't know whether this was a direct effect of the wire). The subsequent growth became leggy and boring, and the tree sat in the Forgotten Corner for some time.

E_Sideroxylon_0112_01.jpg

E_Sideroxylon_0112_02.jpg

When I got stuck into the soil, I was surprised to find that the soil structure was still mostly intact and that the pot was full of roots. I reduced the roots by about half and hacked about 1cm off the lignotuberous base.

E_Sideroxylon_0112_03.jpg

E_Sideroxylon_0112_04.jpg

E_Sideroxylon_0112_05.jpg

E_Sideroxylon_0112_06.jpg

I am hoping beyond all hope that there is a dormant bud somewhere along that long, straight branch, as I suspect it is now too thick to bend without snapping. I will find a more sunny part of the yard for this one so that I might have a progress update before 2014...

Thanks.

Fly.

[Tenka]

Thanks for writing it up FlyBri, even though your endeavors haven't been as successful as you'd like

I have a nursery stock Euc myself I've been wondering how to develop, struggling with leggy, boring growth and brittle branches. I can almost see it ending up as a bit of a stump.

[FlyBri]

I have a nursery stock Euc myself I've been wondering how to develop, struggling with leggy, boring growth and brittle branches. I can almost see it ending up as a bit of a stump.

Gday Tenka!

If it were mine, I would pull it from the pot, hack off the bottom 1/3 of the rootball (it looks pretty rootbound, in which case the roots are likely to be quite brittle), tease out the rest of the roots/soil and then see how you're going for roots near the trunk. I would then remove 1/2 of the remaining roots, paying particular attention to any strongly downward-growing roots. Then pop it into a wide/shallowish pot with really well-drained mix, and water well with SeaSol (diluted as recommended). Keep up the water for the first couple of months. Also, I would be chopping it as indicated below - I can see at least 3 nodes below the line, and growth from these should allow for the introduction of taper and movement.

Tenka_Euc_Chop_V.jpg

Thanks, and good luck!

▼ ▼ ▼

I am hoping beyond all hope that there is a dormant bud somewhere along that long, straight branch, as I suspect it is now too thick to bend without snapping.

...and there was. Should be something there to choose from:

E_Sideroxylon_0212_01.jpg

E_Sideroxylon_0212_02.jpg

More to come.

[Ben10000]

Thought i might add to this thread just notched this tree, using a reciprocating saw, which gave me a clean cut, wired the trunk down and with some guy wires left no gap between the cuts, now just waiting to see how the tree will react, waiting to develop primary branches,

[KyBonzai]

This thread really makes me want to try some Aussie natives ...especially Eucs