Which pot position suits best.

[adge0001]

I like C, but also feel that if the right hand branch is either grown out further away from the trunk, or even bend the branch back around to the right a bit. It seems to have a very smooth curve and could do with some directional changes. Cheers:)

[anttal63]

I chose C. in most cases the pot should not be used to balance the tree, the placement of the branches should balanced the tree in relation to the trunk movement. pot size can also aid in balancing. a smaller pot maybe if you were to place it in the centre???
the colours in the pot do match the tree well though
Hugh

Hugh thanks for your feedback also mate. I feel if i was to go for the tree developed on the right hand side that some are suggesting, i would then need to leave in pos.(a) or as you have suggested a smaller pot, i think round and planted centre. Although a i think a smaller pot would require minimal foliage mass.

How about a position between C and D. It will be smack bang in the middle of the pot but I think it will work

Hey Bunj what you propose will work fine. Safe and Stable also. Off centre in my eyes creates little more interest as do odds rather than evens or diagonals rather than vertical/horizontals. Central plantings are also great in formal symetric designs. Thanks for you input.

I would say C but I have a question that goes with that. Would it be right to say that with informal upright trees should the intended apex of the tree be centred to the pot and the trunk leaves the pot wherever it needs to, to make this happen. I have just looked at some good examples of bonsai and this seems to be consistant with the trees that looked balanced.
This is not an opinion but a question?
If this is true then I would say C but slightly more left.
Cheers
Squizz

Hey Sqizzy good observation and yes i think that has always been stipulated as a desired guide line. Once again it is Safe and stable and this makes us feel good.

I always try to positition a tree in the centre of a pot. The pot represents the ground and as such should act like a picture frame. How do you look at a bonsai? You start at the base (Nebari) and your eye follows, up the trunk and then to the rest of the tree. Therefore, the starting point, the base of the tree should be in the centre of the composition, which draws the eye strait to it, not off to one side where its not the first thing that attracts your eye. C. is the correct possition. JMO. After all isn't it all about the tree. The pot is there to make the tree look good.
chris

Chris thanks also for your analogy. Mate there are many factors that go to balancing or not balancing a tree and pot. I for one still have much to learn in this area but i dont feel it can be so cut and shut. Not balancing a tree is like learning how to break the rules on branch configuration. To make the unbalanced look balanced. I certainly dont feel the exit of the tree should be centred. There are many framed paintings and pictures that have an assymetric composition. In fact i am researching and looking for a particular example that was used in a similar discussion years ago. Bare with me i hope i can find it.

ps am still coming round to the rest of you saving the best for last !!!

[Gerard]

I voted 'c',
This tree leaves me a little uncomfortable with the movement.
Does it move right or left?
A new leader going to the right will work but that will make the tree taller than I like.
Foliage and positioning of foliage might make the tree look altogether different but I suspect this tree is a flowering species which will be at its best when in flower and with little foliage.
You have certainly chosen a nice material and I love the way you challenge the guidelines. I look foreward to seeing where you take this one.

[anttal63]

I really have an enormous amount to learn about this subject. and also pot selection etc.
My initial reaction before I voted and looked at the results or comments was C, as to my untrained eye it seems to balance the composition more.
But the more I looked at it I personally felt that D was/is more dynamic and so that is how I voted.
To me C balances it too much. After all the trunk leans/slants to the right and the apex is on the left...so the empty pot space on the left in pot selection D helps suggest that apicial movement/change of direction to my eye, and looks more dynamic to me.
Cheers, Dario.

Hi I voted D as I believe it does give it a more dramatic look and I guess to some extent that is what we are trying to create " not just a pot plant " ! With the development of that left branch over time that will create more balance to the image.... all in all i really like it the pot choice in my eyes is great .... just my
Regards Mick

Good onya the both of you for voting (d) and reading where the tree is going. My partner mary who is an interior designer chose (d) too. This position does the story telling for the tree probably better than any other. Yes the negative space on the left is waiting for the tree to further develope no doubt. But for me guys, i spoke of the trunk leaving home and the apex bringing it back home safe and stable in (c). Here in (d) it feels like the tree doesnt quite come back home and therefor leaves me un easy.It is this element that creates the drama you guys speak of. There is tension but not quiet the release imo. However there is something very attractive about that, as in (a) the tree comes home but seems to keep going so the tension is on again. These elements also speed up the rythm of the tree giving it movement. This evokes emotion and certainly provokes thought and discussion. Thanks Dario and Mick !!!

[anttal63]

Barry, Adge and Gerrard, safe and stable is where most of us like to be most of the time. Thats a good thing! Gerrard it is an ash.

[Rintar]

Hi Anttal63,

I am the fool who voted for b how could I not I am a newbie and like to stir the pot and no one else had had stood up for this poor little underdog of a position. I look at this tree in its dormant state and see a blank canvas I see something that lets the minds eye wonder. With its clothes on it may be different but for now in the form you show me my imagination takes me on a journey i see this tree at the base of mountain or cliff grown up to a ledge and now pushing out to the left were their is less protection from the wind across the barren scape (hence the one tree) but their is a river or creek at the far end of the view maybe just crossing it.

If you want to talk art and rule of 3rds or catching/drawing the eye it does that job here as well it fills a third of your frame yes it is the extreme and in English taught eyes it is at the end in Japanese it is at the beginning (reading backwards to us) that does not make it wrong nor does it make it right(he he) in nature is a tree always framed perfectly or does it sometimes sit in an odd spot or place??

Im not saying that B is a must Just saying it is also not wrong... definatley on the right though ha ha ha

cheers all

Jas

Please this is both an opinion and a semi piss take take it as you will strongly disagree but i mean not to offend just stir.

[anttal63]

Jas its all good you are no fool . Your first example is one of my favourite penjing's. Although similarish trunk movement, very different branch styling and volume. Your third example, im not so sure a tree would grow that way parallel with a cliff face but rather away from the cliff to start with. In real life B is also more convincing than the virt and i guess could be styled to suit this position more so. Good on you for challenging the norm and allowing your imagination to take you here. Thanks for taking mine too! ps I love thirds and fifths !!!