my first root over rock!!!

[matty-j]

hey guys

so this afternoon after i finished work i attempted my first root over rock
i honestly have no idea what i was doing but i gave it a go anyway,
i collected this little guy around 6 months ago an thought why not
all i did was find a nice rock (which wasn't to hard being a stonemason )
got my little juni out of its pot and placed it onto the rock tied some string around it to hold in place
filled the first 40mm of the pot with 10 to 20mm granite chips then pushed wet potting mix all around it
at least 50mm above the rock

my question is this what did i do wrong and how bad?

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[alpineart]

Hi Matty-j , mate root over rock Junipers is best done with older material as they have very fine roots so development will be very slow .This sized juniper will take years to grow to a sizable plant . With ROR i wind the string around 1-2 dozen times however i have a large amount of roots to hold in place . Most other species i use for ROR already have good developed root masses , these are purpose trimmed to suit the rock and wound with string . Your idea is correct just need to upsize the plant and plenty of twine /string to ensure all the roots actually clasp the rock not grow outwards away from the rock itself .

Cheers Alpineart

[Phoenix238]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12320

This post is very informative, worth a read. Good luck with your ROR

[daiviet_nguyen]

Good evening matty-j,

I have not done any ROR juniper. But I have done plent of trident maples:

In my understanding, the most important factor in ROR is the roots need to hold the rock convincingly. We need to keep this in mind from the start. I usually wrap (tie) the roots to the rock with many ties/turns as possible. Since learning of grafting tapes, I always use grafting tapes to tie them. It is not biodegradable, but that would not be a problem, as we will repot the trees every second year or so. Or in my case, on young tridents, every year.

This is one that I posted last: http://www.ausbonsai.com/forum/viewtopi ... =104&t=380

I like your rock

Best regards.

[kcpoole]

I use layer of Muck, then wrap with gladwrap and then tie up with string.

Pot deeply for 2 years for maples and much longer for Juni / pines

Ken

[Barry1]

Ken what is your recipe for muck ?

Barry

[Isitangus]

Hey Marty great rock, I'm always on bayE on the lookout, I'm sure if you had more they would sell!!!

[kcpoole]

Ken what is your recipe for muck ?

Barry

50% clay, 50% coir peat
Mix with water to a soft putty consistency and can be stored for ages

Ken

[Barry1]

Thanks Ken ! is that potters clay you use ?

[matty-j]

Thanks for all the feed back and links
Very very helpful
I think I'll try my luck with a trident very soon

One question tho would it be a bad idea to leave the
Little guy on the rock for the time being?
My thinking is that it can't hurt growing on top of it for a year
If I have to grow more roots any way?

Or should re pot it again now?

as I read I noticed that no one touched on
the roots after they grow around the rock
This may sound silly to some but I was wondering
As the roots grow lower than the rock do you make sure they radiate out
From the base of the rock?
Or as they grow under
and cross over in the middle if that makes sense?

Thanks for your help guys

Matt

[chipper5]

Hi Matty-j,

In regards to the roots, ideally when the tree is initially placed on the rock the roots will be longer than the rock and go past the base. Once you've secured the roots to the rock, wrap and tuck the remaining roots under the rock and this will help them clasp and hold onto the rock. (like you said so they grow under and cross the middle) If you flare/radiate them out from the base they could separate from the rock once uncovered.

Hope that helps & good luck- they're very exciting trees to work with!

[Hackimoto]

I remember my first wild, root-over-rock. It was on top of the cliff at North Head on Sydney Harbour. I hadn't tried many of the styles at that time as I had only just started, but I did have an informal upright of which I was quite proud. Anyway, back to Bonsai. I find that the only species that are great for RoR are Figs, Trident Maple, Privet and maybe Dwarf Umbrella. the rest just never seem to truly spread out and grasp the rock convincingly.

[shibui]

Ken and Barry,
I stopped using muck for root over rock many years ago. Had too much trouble with roots rotting in the muck and new roots shooting out away from the rock. Muck may have been the best technology available 80 years ago but techniques and new materials have superseded it

[Josh]

Ken and Barry,
I stopped using muck for root over rock many years ago. Had too much trouble with roots rotting in the muck and new roots shooting out away from the rock. Muck may have been the best technology available 80 years ago but techniques and new materials have superseded it

Like to share your newer techniques

[shibui]

Like to share your newer techniques

Now if I did that anyone would be able to grow good root over rock bonsai really easily What would that do to the market

However,

Our club is doing a root over rock workshop on Tuesday evening. I will try to remember to take some pics of the process and if you are all reeeeaally good I might even post some.