Collected Quercus suber...

[deepeetee]

That makes sense.
I better grow some fingernails

Thanks for your help Craig

[Dario]

Good work deepeetee! It is a lovely suber mate!
I suggest that you go with Craig's advise, as I am sure you will.
Regarding the repot in Spring...with most deciduous species it is advised to repot when the buds are swelling (as I understand it).Suber is a little different in my experience (yes I am aware that it is an evergreen). I would wait untill the swelling buds break into shoots, and let them grow to between 3 to 5cm and then repot. Similar to how the uppermost shoots look in the pic that you uploaded look...but repot a bit earlier than the length they are at in the pic.
This ensures the best chance for a quick recovery.
Good work, I look forward to watching it progress, and please keep updating it.
Cheers, Dario.

[Dario]

all, in the last week I decided to give some of last years collected suber a heavy prune (a sort of first styling). Now I need to get some bonsai wire and wire them up to complete the process. I would like to do this to another two subers that I also collected last year but I am in two minds as to which direction to take them in terms of their first heavy pruning/styling.
So I am posting a few pics of the trees in question in the hope that I can get some ideas from members here on which direction to take them...either confirming my thoughts or giving me completely new ideas alltogether.
I have labelled pics left, right, front, back etc, these are just for use as labells of different views...not the front, back, left, right of the final tree.
Maybe over kill on the pics?...but the more the merrier?...CORK OAK 1(slanting trunk line)..

slanty 1.JPG

slanty 4 RIGHT VIEW.JPG

slanty 13 FRONT VIEW.JPG

slanty 15 BACK VIEW.JPG

slanty 9 FRONT close up.JPG

slanty 10 RIGHT close up.JPG

slanty 20 LEFT CLOSE UP.JPG

slanty 23 LEFT REAR angle.JPG

slanty 24 RIGHT REAR angle.JPG

slanty 25 LEFT FRONT ANGLE.JPG

slanty 26 RIGHT FRONT angle.JPG

slanty 35 REAR LEFT angle close up.JPG

slanty 34 FRONT RIGHT close up.JPG

slanty 27 FRONT VIEW close up of apex.JPG

slanty 29 LEFT REAR close up apex angle.JPG

slanty 21 FRONT close up.JPG

slanty 38 TOP VIEW.JPG

Thanks for any help or direction you are able to provide me
Cheers, Dario.

[Dario]

Hi all, any help you can give me is much appreciated!
I am asking for advice with this twin trunk because in my mind there is only a couple of views worth utilising as the main trunk has that pigeon breasted issue from certain views. Then in the views without that issue, there is only a few that don't have reverse taper at the trunk base. Then more possible views are eliminated due to acheiving the best trunk line (as well as the widest base). Another issue is that the trunk base on one of the views with the widest base, is very ugly due to two branches being previously removed...however it is possible that when the cork develops over the cuts, it may eradicate this uglyness and in time also increase the taper at the trunk base too. The problem is that in one of good views, the second smaller trunk is pretty much obscure from view (so what is the point in even having a second trunk?).
I was going to just prune these trees yesterday, but I decided to stop myself and post pics instead to see if anyone had any ideas?
I hope the pics that I am posting highlight some of the issues I mentioned.
Ok, so here is cork no. 2...

twin 6.JPG

twin 7.JPG

twin 19.JPG

twin 22.JPG

twin 23.JPG

twin 25.JPG

twin 26.JPG

twin 28.JPG

twin 30.JPG

twin 37.JPG

twin 40.JPG

twin 10.JPG

twin 11.JPG

twin 41.JPG

Thank you, Dario.

[Craig]

just had a quick gander Dario, i haven't had the time to check out all the pics mate, this one took me ,here's a quicky

dario-twin trunk.JPG

[Dario]

Hi Craig and thanks for the virt mate!!
This view is also the one that I decided utilises the twin trunk at its best. I was going to prune it yesterday with this view in mind. Before I was going to hack at it, I drew a pic that is very similar to yours except that I tilted the tree to the right so that the main trunk was leaning ever so slightly to the right of center/vertical, and added a left branch (basically a third smaller sub-trunk) to my pic that emerges slightly to the rear of the main trunk...at the base of the trunk (just above the level that the second trunk emerges from)...I also turned the trunk about ten or so degrees clockwise to further excentuate the main trunks line/movement.
I am not sure if this is a practical design as it would take a fair while to grow this extra branch/sub-trunk...but I figure the tree will take quite a few years to develop anyway. Any thoughts on this Craig?...or anyone?
Regarding this twin trunk suber, I also like the third pic of this tree (view/twin 19.JPG). But this one is basically a single trunk view that nearly totally obscures the second trunk, hence I would chop it off.
This view shows the best trunk line in the bark so to speak...doesn't look as good in the 2d pic...but the problem with it is that I have a few single trunk corks and no twin trunks...and I figure I should use what I already have as the cork bark is the real stand out feature and takes a while to develop.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond mate! I hope you can find the time to give me some pointers on the 1st tree with the slanting trunk, as this is the one that I could do with the most help on!
It seems that you are the only person who responds to these suber posts Craig ( much appreciated!!), but even though it is early days and I only just posted these two trees with the request for help, it makes me wonder if I should post the two best cork oaks that I have...as it doesn't seem to generate much interest at all.
Cheers, Dario.

[Craig]

it makes me wonder if I should post the two best cork oaks that I have...as it doesn't seem to generate much interest at all

Keep em to yourself mate . better still pm them to me better off posting about how the sun rises, you'd get far more responses than posting a bonsai

Dario, what i would be tending to do on #1 is cut the heavier(thicker branches from the trunk and only keep the thin shoots for now, you could keep a heavy one for a leader if you wish,. Then trim all remaining shoots back to only 2 or 3 leaves, keep the bottom heavy branch for now also, when your new shoots burst let them extend out to say 8 or 10 leaves and cut back again to 2 or 3 leaves per shoot(including side shoots, by this time you should definately have some new shoots emerging from the trunk. Now i know previously (different tree) u said u wanted no shoots from the corky trunk, but you will be able to utilise them and if you don't u can cut em off later mate.. Keep pinching and cutting like that until you build up a heavy/dense amount of new branches and foliage to work with-- then you can think about styling/and will have had more thinking time .

#2, i also thought about tilting the trunk but never incorporated that into my virt and ofcourse branching is not right on it either, imo, definately keep 2 trunks, and embark on the same pinching and triming as for the first tree.
Fertilise hard and often at the same time

[Dario]

Thanks Craig!...I'd be lost without your help mate!
Cheers, Dario.

[Craig]

Thanks Craig!...I'd be lost without your help mate!

[Craig]

Well I don't know exactly what happened this arvo, one minute I was admiring the small Suber thinking it's coming along well and then all I started thinking Again .

I timmed back the branches a little bit and cut off last years leader extension growth.

DSC01543.JPG

DSC01544.JPG

I have been evey so curious about de_barking a Corkbark Oak bonsai , what would happen??

DSC01538.JPG

So I decided to go ahead and try it , then I'll know.

DSC01539.JPG

This is the main chop, the cambium is rolling over so I'll carve it out to soon to help it along.

DSC01540.JPG

Starting to get somewhere now

DSC01541.JPG

DSC01542.JPG

Some thick cork here.

DSC01536.JPG

Still more to come off yet

DSC01545.JPG

DSC01546.JPG

DSC01547.JPG

DSC01548.JPG

DSC01549.JPG

So it took quite a while to carefully remove all the cork from the trunk but I got there in the end

DSC01552.JPG

DSC01553.JPG

DSC01554.JPG

DSC01555.JPG

I still have some work to do on this tree and am going to repot without rootpruning into a large pot to grow on for a couple of years. Grow ,Watch , Learn and Develop, I can't wait to see what happens next.

DSC01551.JPG

Have Fun

[Andrew Legg]

Craig,

I'm curious to know why you were curious to know what would happen if you de-bark the tree? Now you got me all curious as well!

Cheers,

Andrew

[Craig]

Craig,

I'm curious to know why you were curious to know what would happen if you de-bark the tree? Now you got me all curious as well!

Cheers,

Andrew

I'm curious to know why your curious to know why i'm curious to know Andrew
If you never try you never learn,
If you never learn you never know and
If you never know ,
How do you progress forward.

[Dario]

Hi Craig, interesting work!
I am guessing that it will grow back A ok as long as the cambium wasn't damaged (and it looks fine). After all, cork is harvested in this manner on mature trees in plantations.
I think I read on an Italian forum that they sometimes do this to induce better quality bark...apparently the young cork bark is male? and the second cork that grows back is female/ and more refined.
I also think that the cork on mature/aged trees in nature is female.
The idea is that young cork is male and older cork female, and there is a visual difference between the two.
I could be wrong though and I will have to check this info.
I am waiting for the buds to swell on my subers so that I can repot them. Will post soon.
Cheers, Dario.

[Craig]

Hi Dario , No damage was done at all to the membrain, which is the layer between the Corkbark and the Cambium. I'm not sure at all about the Bark Changing sexes, that's pretty interesting, please tell more when you can. I can tell you that I know Quercus Suber does have both the Male and Female flowers on the same tree which is unusual.

As I mentioned I'm unsure about the Bark thing but the Reason I'm doing what I'm doing here is for a few reasons. Wouldn't you like to try it? Why don't you?
The idea behind bark removal is when it regrows over a period of years, it will grow more in proportion to the size of the tree/trunk. Being grown slower than in ground, the bark will/should exhibit smaller fissures and ridges within the corkbark, a texture and look more desirable in a Bonsai. When grown fast in ground the bark has deep fissures and ridges which are out of character with a smaller tree . I would not do this to a Large trunked Suber as the deeper bark would suit a larger tree. i have never seen this bark develop but would estimate 7 to 14 years before it would look right again.

i'm lokking forward to seeing your subers again mate. Take care

p.s- heres a good link(pdf) if you haven't already got it.

http://www.euforgen.org/fileadmin/biove ... suber_.pdf

[Dario]

As I mentioned I'm unsure about the Bark thing but the Reason I'm doing what I'm doing here is for a few reasons. Wouldn't you like to try it? Why don't you?
The idea behind bark removal is when it regrows over a period of years, it will grow more in proportion to the size of the tree/trunk. Being grown slower than in ground, the bark will/should exhibit smaller fissures and ridges within the corkbark, a texture and look more desirable in a Bonsai. When grown fast in ground the bark has deep fissures and ridges which are out of character with a smaller tree .i'm lokking forward to seeing your subers again mate. Take care

When I mentioned that the bark has different sexes etc, it may have been a translation issue as I don't speak Italian fluently, and I will have to find out wether it is correct or incorrect information.
But the the attributes of the bark can certainly be referred to as male and female, and this is the reason that the Italians (on the forum I mentioned) did this to some of their subers just like you have done, looking for the same outcome ...the male attribute of the cork exhibits deep fissures and ridges which is associated with "young" cork, whilst the female attribute of the cork exibits smaller fissures and ridges (exactly as you mentioned Craig ) and is more appealing for shohin and feminine style trees. I also believe it is a representation of antiquity as older subers exhibit this femine cork. But I need to find out more about it as ancient subers can also have the rugged deeply fissured masculine looking cork too (yet that may actually be the female cork ) Now I am getting confused It probably was a translation issue
Anyway I do know that you are improving your tree 100% by doing this and I like that you came up with the idea yourself
Yeah I have a couple that could definitely benefit from this technique so that the bark matches the trees size and feminin style...I might just give it a shot too...thanks for posting this Craig, and thanks for the link too:tu2:
Cheers, Dario.