Hello & maybe farewell :(

[billa]

Heya Gang,

Ok so one or two weeks ago I noticed the leaves curling and going black on my new Pear Tree...I didnt look too much into as I thought its just a leaf or two and it is a deciduous tree...so maybe this is how the leaves fall off? I have never had a fruiting/flowering tree before mind you....

Today I was just checking out all my trees seeing how all the budds were going and stuff - then I realised my Pear tree had many leaf tips turning black and many thorns had their tips also turning black and even scarier - I think the buds are black too??? I purchased this tree like 3 weeks ago and am so so so scared and upset.

I did some research and have google self diagnosed my tree with either a) Fire blight or b) bad parenting - but all I really ever did was just repot and watered whenever I thought was necessary...I maybe watered it like 3 times since I got it. What on earth happened? I dont see any of my other trees going black (or maybe I didnt look hard enough as it was dark) Does this stuff spread? What is it??? AAAaaaarrrhhhhhh Im so confused...

I turned to Ausbonsai and read a post from a while back saying there is no fire blight in australia

Is this so? Is this fire blight? Please put my soul at ease....actually as I am writing this I remembered that I semi defoliated too...does this have anything to do with it?

Also ....I freaked myself out and took off the few leaves left and cut off all the thorn tips that had the black, in a panic.I used an old pair of like school scissors then threw them away in case they ever came near any of my trees again...

And lastly, I saw what looks like white powder/chalk (a very small amount) that was at the very bottom of, pretty much the circumference of the tree...(the base)

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thank you for your help

[anttal63]

Deciduous trees are supposed to be repotted after they have been dormant and just before bud burst !!! That means after the leaves have dropped and as we near spring we watch for the buds to swell and repot just before the leaves open up. If the tree has been stubborn and not gone to dormancy then the tree would need to be defoliated and left to sit and again watch for bud swell. Patience to wait for that to happen should have been excercised !!!

[billa]

Deciduous trees are supposed to be repotted after they have been dormant and just before bud burst !!! That means after the leaves have dropped and as we near spring we watch for the buds to swell and repot just before the leaves open up. If the tree has been stubborn and not gone to dormancy then the tree would need to be defoliated and left to sit and again watch for bud swell. Patience to wait for that to happen should have been excercised !!!

AAAhhhhh thats scary Tony- so I should not have touched the leaves? remember I got this tree 3 weeks ago bare rooted. I got mixed feed back about defoliating so went half way and semi defoliated!!!! its gonna die isnt it? break it to me Doc????????????

[paddles]

no you have done right by defoliating.. can I suggest that if you have not already done so, join your local bonsai club?? to me, it looks like your tree has been overfed/overwatered. stop everything!

please give some more background, what is the tree potted in, container and mix. (photos help) where are you keeping it. where did you get it, what do you plan to do with it.. (seeing photos of the full tree will help.) When I say what do you plan to do with it, do you plan to grow it on? is it an "instant" tree?

please detail everything you have done with the tree, when you bought it (condition?) you say it was bare rooted, but had leaves??? more detail please.

[anttal63]

First and upmost... Is this tree evergreen or deciduous !!! I think the latter... Therfor the tree should not have been bare rooted with foliage still on it let alone root worked hard??? Its too late to defoliate after bare rooting. Shibui please chime in and set the record straight what do you think???

[billa]

no you have done right by defoliating.. can I suggest that if you have not already done so, join your local bonsai club?? to me, it looks like your tree has been overfed/overwatered. stop everything!

please give some more background, what is the tree potted in, container and mix. (photos help) where are you keeping it. where did you get it, what do you plan to do with it.. (seeing photos of the full tree will help.) When I say what do you plan to do with it, do you plan to grow it on? is it an "instant" tree?

please detail everything you have done with the tree, when you bought it (condition?) you say it was bare rooted, but had leaves??? more detail please.

Hello Mr Paddles…

Thank you for helping me….I think your diagnoses is spot on – that sounds like me over watering and feeding….my enthusiasm gets the better of me sometimes. Especially with this tree..It’s the most expensive I ever bought and tried maybe too much to accommodate to it.

The potting mx is the super great happy perfectly balanced excellent mix from bunnings …Its mostly bark, coconut hair (I think) sand, small white rocks (not pumice of diamite or whatever) and a lot of soil. It is in a white glazed Zisha/purple sand pot.

After getting the tree in the mail I repotted it instantly – I think I broke a world record because I was worried it spent too much time in transit and flew thru the repotting excercise. The first two weeks I kept it in a corner on my balcony where its protected from wind/weather. Right in the corner and beside a small cupboard that has my tools and pots etc in it (it like acts as a wind guard I guess) I am on the second level so my balcony gets really windy at times.

Only after the 2 weeks (watered only when repotted) I moved it to the centre of my balcony where it started to get some sun and more wind. Here I also fed it seasol concentrate (it was a 45 ml packet and it said its good for 9 litres so I did my math and used approx 4ml/5 ml for a bit under 1.5 litres- I always go a bit weaker than what is recommended) I also sprayed with seasol foliage formula in the same night – only a few sprays. The first 2 weeks I really did water it once as it stayed wet for ages. I have watered it 3 times since I got it – the third time being last nite.


Then the most recent 5-6 days I placed it with the rest of my trees who are all on the end of the balcony where they all get moderate sun and still a fair bit of wind. Here is where I noticed the blackness.

I got it from Sydney (eBay) it came full of leaves and I guess bare rooted. There was a fair bit of soil covering most of the roots but some were definitely exposed. I didn’t do much root pruning at all-which I loved…Im scared of cutting the roots unless its really really obvious that its ok and that its healthy.

I wanted a tree that had a developed trunk already and something I could just do some work on the branches and general maintenance.


So I got the tree…repotted instantly and watered. 2 days later or so I took off 80% of leaves…kept it in shade for 2 weeks. After this 2 week period (maybe 12/13 days actually) I took it out of shade for a few days, placed it in centre of my balcony where I watered and fed. Then after this few days spent in centre of balcony , I moved it to the rest of my trees for like a few more days. I’m trying to think what else have I done to it?....I sat and looked at it for hours….but I think that its.


As for my bonsai club. I just missed last month’s meeting right, since I have spoken to and emailed the president about joining and attending the next meeting. And guess what??? It was last night!!!!!! I bloody missed it!!! I was too busy stressing out and dreading fire blight…far out I’m really spewing.


I have had the tree for about 3-4 weeks now. If you like when I get home il take some recent pics of it or il bother my wife at lunch time and get her to take a few pics and send them across-she loves doing my bonsai errands when Im at work actually if she ever divorces me it will be because I get her to cover my trees when it rains- when its mega hot and other stuff hahahaha dont worry id do the same for her in the mean time here a some photos of when I received the treee and after repotting it….




Thanks for your time…



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[billa]

First and upmost... Is this tree evergreen or deciduous !!! I think the latter... Therfor the tree should not have been bare rooted with foliage still on it let alone root worked hard??? Its too late to defoliate after bare rooting. Shibui please chime in and set the record straight what do you think???

Yeah wow I still have such a long way to go...I guess this is a good learning curve!! I never considered the impact that bare rooting would have?! but I think in bonsai ever action has repercussions...

I thank you all for your input as I learn more more....

This make me remember that a good teacher is like a candle: it consumes itself to light the way for others. Thank you

[Sno]

G'day Billa . Moving trees can some times be very stressful for the tree.you say you bought this tree three weeks ago from Sydney (a much warmer enviroment) . This tree may have been in a more favorable environment ie under cover of some sort ( shade cloth etc) ,even close to a brick wall or nestled closer to other plants. Some trees need time to adjust to the change .Black tips on the plant could be an indicator of frost or cold damage . I don't know for sure if this is your problem (hard to tell from a photo ). I would at least move the tree to a more sheltered area and be careful to not overwater. Hope this tree comes good.
Craig.

[Isitangus]

Could the soil be retaining "too much" moisture??? If it stayed moist for that long could lead to root rot in a semi bare rooted plant?? It's been COLD here in Sydney so the climate change wouldn't be killing it that fast (although frost can blacken leaves) I think you've done the right thing by cutting off all the black bits-you sometimes need to be aggressive with how much you cut off to make sure you've gotten it all.
I would also use an Eco oil or pest oil spray-the White at the bottom of the trunk...
And
We all "loose" plants...I just lost 3 out of 5 desert Rose but I put that down to wrong climate not my lack of ability

[billa]

G'day Billa . Moving trees can some times be very stressful for the tree.you say you bought this tree three weeks ago from Sydney (a much warmer enviroment) . This tree may have been in a more favorable environment ie under cover of some sort ( shade cloth etc) ,even close to a brick wall or nestled closer to other plants. Some trees need time to adjust to the change .Black tips on the plant could be an indicator of frost or cold damage . I don't know for sure if this is your problem (hard to tell from a photo ). I would at least move the tree to a more sheltered area and be careful to not overwater. Hope this tree comes good.
Craig.

Thank you Mr Craig - I will run home and do this now at lunch time as it is raining here where I am. Could be transit...I know Sydney usually has much hotter weather than melb and melb has been really cold lately - so as long as its not that fire blight stuff..il be happy and super attentive to maintain the health and future of the tree.

Thank you

[billa]

Could the soil be retaining "too much" moisture??? If it stayed moist for that long could lead to root rot in a semi bare rooted plant?? It's been COLD here in Sydney so the climate change wouldn't be killing it that fast (although frost can blacken leaves) I think you've done the right thing by cutting off all the black bits-you sometimes need to be aggressive with how much you cut off to make sure you've gotten it all.
I would also use an Eco oil or pest oil spray-the White at the bottom of the trunk...
And
We all "loose" plants...I just lost 3 out of 5 desert Rose but I put that down to wrong climate not my lack of ability

Hello There,

Do you know any symptoms of root rot off the top of your head Mr Isitangus please? Because really...it did stay wet for longer than I thought safe. I let it go bone dry tho before I put anymore water...should I pull her out and start again?? Frost has happened...I know on 2 recent occasions my car had a nice layer of frost in the mornings and I thought Oh my poor trees!!!

Thank you - not sure what made me think of cutting off the black bits....but nice to hear that was an OK move.

Is ECO OIL the actual name? What would I be looking for at bunnings?

Thanks gang...Im starting to feel better again xoxoxoxoxo to all of you

[Isitangus]

Eco oil is just one brand of non chemical oil, rather than bunnings I would venture to the closest nursery to where you are, perhaps bring some cuttings in a plastic bag and talk to someone at the nursery. They will point you in the right direction in terms of product needed if any.
Root rot:
Symptoms include: wilting (although the plant is not in need of water)
yellowing leaves
the sudden dying back of some or all of the plant
the plant becoming loose in the soil
stem lesions appearing near the base of the plant (for example with citrus). Gum is released from fissures in the bark of the plant in woody species.
affected roots becoming a soggy dark brown colour and brittle instead of the normal pale colour.
plant death (especially after wet conditions).
This disease also affects pot plants but the plant may become infected well before symptoms are displayed.

I agree with previous comments, move to a more sheltered spot (hard on a balcony but possible). If it were my plant...I'd take it of of it's existing pot,into a new bigger pot with good organic soil mix, try not to disturb to much of the root ball, mulch and leave her for a day or two then light water with weak seasol every other day.
What have you got to loose by not trying???

[billa]

Eco oil is just one brand of non chemical oil, rather than bunnings I would venture to the closest nursery to where you are, perhaps bring some cuttings in a plastic bag and talk to someone at the nursery. They will point you in the right direction in terms of product needed if any.
Root rot:
Symptoms include: wilting (although the plant is not in need of water)
yellowing leaves
the sudden dying back of some or all of the plant
the plant becoming loose in the soil
stem lesions appearing near the base of the plant (for example with citrus). Gum is released from fissures in the bark of the plant in woody species.
affected roots becoming a soggy dark brown colour and brittle instead of the normal pale colour.
plant death (especially after wet conditions).
This disease also affects pot plants but the plant may become infected well before symptoms are displayed.

I agree with previous comments, move to a more sheltered spot (hard on a balcony but possible). If it were my plant...I'd take it of of it's existing pot,into a new bigger pot with good organic soil mix, try not to disturb to much of the root ball, mulch and leave her for a day or two then light water with weak seasol every other day.
What have you got to loose by not trying???

Thank you kindly for your input Mr Isitangus. I will most definitely take a very close look at the tree tonite, draw some conclusions, then make some decisions .

Thanks for your ears guys and your direction. I really dont know what id do without all your ideas and advice. I hope some day to be the one helping others - but before that happens I must continue with hall the questions and learning .

Thank you all for your patience

[shibui]

Annatal,
There are a number of species that are semi deciduous - chinese elms, chinese quince are 2 I work with a lot. They do NOT need to have all the leaves off to be root pruned. I have the feeling they are actually dormant in winter, just don't drop the leaves, but I have repotted chinese elm successfully with leaves on including severe root cut back when digging them from the grow beds - no problem. Also remember that we root prune evergreen trees with leaves on no problem. Why such a fuss about a few leaves on when repotting

Billa,
Very hard to diagnose from pics of a few leaves but symptoms sound most likely to be a fungal infection that got in through the cut roots in wet conditions. I have similar problem with Japanese maple here. I have saved a few by cutting back water and moving to a location where sun and air movement can help prevent this. most just die once infected.
Good luck with recovering this tree but in any case treat it as a learning experience - where to buy, Do research BEFORE purchase, etc. Even experts lose trees and those who have not are not really extending themselves as bonsai growers.

If there is ANY possibility this is Fireblight please get samples in sealed bag to DPI, Burnley, etc for diagnosis. Fireblight should not be in Aust but if it has arrived need to take all steps to eradicate it.

[Isitangus]

Shibui have you ever had luck with or tried a phosphate type fungicide on your troubled maples? Commonly used to treat root rot?