advice on a pyracantha

[matty-j]

hey everyone

i collected this 2 months ago and its still alive
after collecting i had a closer look i have noticed 1 main problem
so the tree only has 1 live part the thin looking trunk to the left
and the thicker trunk that forks is all dead as far as i can tell
the red arrow is the trunk that is alive
and the blue is dead

alive and dead.png

alive and dead whole tree.png

is it possible to fuse or wrap the live trunk around the dead wood?
i dont know where to go from here
is it possible to make something like this look good?
i also left 2 suckers when i collected this tree thinking i might make
2 smaller tree's is this a bad idea?
obviously it still need a lot more time to recover
but would like to have a plan for its future

[shibui]

Matty, I would use the dead part to create some jin and Shari. It will look like the tree has been struck by lightning or has been broken in a storm but survived and continued to grow. I love the look of trees that include dead wood and I think this one has potential.

[Watto]

This tree really has a lot going for it. It is a "scrub dug beauty" that should be treasured. All dug trees should be put away for at least a year after digging, but two is better. That will give it time to recover properly and it will also show you what is available to work on. I agree with Shibui that jins, shari and uro's are very attractive on this type of material and in my opinion this has some very good qualities that will only improve over time. But just for now, fertilize, water and let it grow. That is always difficult when you have a tree with a lot of potential but it will be beneficial in the long term.
Good luck
Watto

[Andrew Legg]

I think I'm correct in saying that pyracanthas are pretty hard too, so jins and shari should hopefully last well. Nice material, and let me echo others when I say don't rush it!

Cheers,

Andrew

[Justin Hervey]

Great find Matt - heaps of potential.

Most pyracantha don't like root cutting, I always allow two growing seasons before the repot to allow the roots to burgeon sufficiently as the nature of the wood and root system is exceptionally brittle.

The deadwood will most likely have found out is also extremely brittle and does not last so seal it up with something more permanent than lime sulphur if you value it.

Plenty of water - they require a huge amount (as long as the soil is draining correctly).

Good luck.

[matty-j]

hey everyone

thanks for all the feed back and advice it is very much appreciated

but i do have another question

so its been 3 months now since collection
and its looking really healthy
ive have dynamic lifter on it for a few weeks with osmocoat slow release pellets
and it has been growing great!
it has just started to flower, should i remover the flowers?
on one hand i would like to see them
but i do understand that is uses a lot of energy in the process
i'm hoping this isnt a last stand and is going to die after flowering

if it was yours you would...............?

IMG_1340.JPG

IMG_1341.JPG

IMG_1342.JPG

[Bougy Fan]

. . . . . I would leave it alone until at least summer next year. If it was only collected 3 months ago doing anything to it now may be at your own peril

[Justin Hervey]

Matt, I never bother removing flowers. If you are feeding aggressively you will have no problems.

[Boics]

Looking really healthy!

Nice work.

P.S. I certainly see the vision for the Jin work.

[Watto]

Let it flower mate, its natures way, and you get to enjoy the beauty. If I am trying to develop a tree I cut off the fruit and I would recommend that to you as the fruit does take a lot of energy out of the tree.

[matty-j]

thanks for all the reply's

i did as bougy suggested and didn't remove the flowers

watto you are spot on it looked fantastic in flower!!!
it was completely covered all over in flowers
i think i will remove the fruit tho
the tree is growing so vigorously i'm confident it can with stand the removal of the fruit

justin i wouldn't say i'am fertilising "aggressively"
all i have been using is osmocote slow release and dynamic lifter
should i be using a liquid fert as well?

boics i'm glad you can see it because at the moment i cant
when i look at it the top looks great growing through and around the dead wood
but at the base i see the live trunk running straight up the side it doesn't look natural to me
what are your thoughts?

cheers
matt

[Boics]

See pic..

Dislaimer: I don't have proper editing software on this computer!

I did take the bulk of the additional wood off in a basic virt.
I also outlined how I can potentially see the jin.

Reason for the lesser viewer left hand side Jin is to still expose the trunk.
I think that if the Jin is lower than the bulk of the foliage it will look more natural.

[MelaQuin]

I am working with two pyracanthas that are stout stock but need massive development of branches... I have removed all flowers. I want the tree to put its energy into producing branches, extending and growing. Producing flowers and fruit takes a lot of energy. Yes they are lovely. Yes they beautify the tree and the bench. But for me better that energy goes into the growth and development I want then slowing it just to have a season or two of flowers and fruit. Fertiliser is all well and good but why disperse that feed? Why not channel it into developing the roots and the tree and in year three let the flowers develop when there are foliage pads and style to show them properly?

[matty-j]

I am working with two pyracanthas that are stout stock but need massive development of branches... I have removed all flowers. I want the tree to put its energy into producing branches, extending and growing. Producing flowers and fruit takes a lot of energy. Yes they are lovely. Yes they beautify the tree and the bench. But for me better that energy goes into the growth and development I want then slowing it just to have a season or two of flowers and fruit. Fertiliser is all well and good but why disperse that feed? Why not channel it into developing the roots and the tree and in year three let the flowers develop when there are foliage pads and style to show them properly?

very good points melaquin and i agree but i think if my tree had been more established then i would have no problems in removing the flowers. since my tree was collected a few months before the flowering had started, it dropped a lot of its foliage after collection and sulked for at least a month and a half and did not put on any new growth, so it was quite clear the tree was severely stressed,
it did put on a fair amount of growth before the flowers started and was regaining some of it vigour but since this is my first pyra i was worried that the tree was still very stressed, it might not handle the removal of the flowers
as bougy fan said "If it was only collected 3 months ago doing anything to it now may be at your own peril"
i think was very good advice
the health of the tree now is much stronger and i would have no worries in removing the flowers or fruit
i guess i wasn't willing to take the chance of loosing the tree by removing them
maybe i could have, i can always remove them next year i'm only young

live and learn

cheers
matt

[matty-j]

Hey Everyone!

This tree has really come along in the last 2 years, I fully wired the tree at the school of bonsai a year ago, which the help of clinton we styled it and gave basic branching. ( I will have to try and find the photos )
3 weeks ago I gave it a good prune then repotted. This was its first repotting since collection. I wanted to wait and let the tree fully recover before i attempted to repot because I didn't barefoot on collection and knew there was ALOT! of clay in the rootball.

I didn't take any in progress photos but there was quite a lot of feeder roots growing in my mix around the clay rootball, I washed all the clay out and potted up into diatomite, pumice, zeolite mix. I didn't root prune because I thought it would be too stressfully and didn't know who far I could push the tree. I was also under the impression that pyracantha don't like root disturbance. but mine has not skipped a beat! buds popping on all the cuts from the hard prune.

I will now let it grow freely and feed hard to gain back some vigour before I give a secondary wire.
Hope you enjoy, any advice is more than welcome!

Cheers
Matt

IMG_5018.jpg