HELP! Bare root wiring etc...

Rhuumz · Post by **Rhuumz** » January 14th, 2013, 4:09 pm

Hey all,

So as I am just starting out on my quest to learn Bonsai I have been reading daily on the web tips and tricks... basics... etc...

Today I have almost certainly killed my first plant....

After reading that it is ideal to bare root a new plant when bought from a nursery I did exactly that... I took the plant out... shucked the majority of dirt out of the ball lightly hosed out the remainder of soil... trimmed 1/3 of the roots....

THEN when I brought it over to my new shiny pot to begin its journey I suddenly realised... "how the heck am I going to wire this thing IN!!!" I use Diatomite as my planting medium so I had the bottom of the pot full with the wires sticking up out of the drainage hole and without mangling the tree and its roots to death with the wire I have no clue to how I can secure this thing!!

So I re-potted it back in the pot it came in and rushed inside to post this....

What... Do.... I... Do... Now....?

Qitianlong · Post by **Qitianlong** » January 14th, 2013, 4:18 pm

Hey Rhuumz!

Crazy day hey!? Can you tell us what type of tree it is? And what part of Australia you are in?

Post by **Bougy Fan** » January 14th, 2013, 4:23 pm

Hope it's not deciduous

Rhuumz · Post by **Rhuumz** » January 14th, 2013, 4:30 pm

juniper nana

sydney area

what "should" i have done?

Post by **Bougy Fan** » January 14th, 2013, 4:38 pm

How much did you take off the top ? Hopefully the heat wave won't continue down there

I am not an expert on juni's but others here are. You should have removed some foliage and just keep watering it with seasol.

Normally the little holes in the pot have the wire coming up and you tie the trunk down to keep it in place.

Rhuumz · Post by **Rhuumz** » January 14th, 2013, 4:45 pm

Bougy Fan wrote:How much did you take off the top ? Hopefully the heat wave won't continue down there I am not an expert on juni's but others here are. You should have removed some foliage and just keep watering it with seasol.

Normally the little holes in the pot have the wire coming up and you tie the trunk down to keep it in place.

No I barely took anything off the top... Mostly just cleaning off any brown needles and trunk sprouts...

So with my wire would i come up through the bottom hole and wrap around the trunk?

Jason · Post by **Jason** » January 14th, 2013, 4:54 pm

http://bonsaitonight.com/2012/02/24/how ... onsai-pot/

The link above has some pretty good info on how to wire it in

Pretty much what I followed when I was trying to figure it out. Although there are probably better techniques out there

Luke308 · Post by **Luke308** » January 14th, 2013, 4:59 pm

I think the best bet is to go to youtube and seach re-potting bonsai. You will see they put the wire through the holes and then bend out of the way to allow room for the tree. Put a small mound of potting substrate on bottom of pot and place tree on top lightly twisting it ontop of substrate. Then cross wire (or twine or string) over the ROOTS and twist together. You may need to place some rubber hose or rubber pads between the wire and roots to avoid damage to the roots.

Hope this helps?? Good luck

Rhuumz · Post by **Rhuumz** » January 14th, 2013, 5:03 pm

DENAz wrote:http://bonsaitonight.com/2012/02/24/how ... onsai-pot/

The link above has some pretty good info on how to wire it in

Yea that is good!

The problem I am having though is that in my previous re-pots I left a root ball of its previous soil intact so when I stick the wires up through it and tighten it down there is an actual substance to pull down...

When I bare rooted this tree the roots go off in a radial pattern but the wire has nothing to pull down on... its like trying to wire down a handful of hair.

Post by **kcpoole** » January 14th, 2013, 5:20 pm

Hi Rhumz
A couple things I noted, What variety tree?
For an inexperience grower, the only trees i would repot at this time of year it Figs, or Bougainvillea, and neither of them will I bare root in this heat.

Unless you Know what you are doing and very experienced with species and it recovery, Never bare root a tree of any type in Summer. Even Experience growers will shudder at doing that IMHO.

Never ( or rarely) bare root a tree to fit in a Bonsai pot. Bareroot a newly collected tree to get rid of Old field soil and then repot in a grow pot. I only ever put Developed trees with developed root system into a bonsai Pot.

When Potting into a Bonsai pot. Make sure the root system will fit before starting much work.

When Wiring into a pot. I bring the wires around the outside of the root ball rather than trying to force them up thru it. Less disturbance to the root mass and thus shock to the tree.

check the links below to the Wiki for some great starter tips and if you can, get along to a locl club and see some demos.

Ken

Post by **kcpoole** » January 14th, 2013, 5:20 pm

Rhuumz wrote:
DENAz wrote:http://bonsaitonight.com/2012/02/24/how ... onsai-pot/

The link above has some pretty good info on how to wire it in
Yea that is good!

The problem I am having though is that in my previous re-pots I left a root ball of its previous soil intact so when I stick the wires up through it and tighten it down there is an actual substance to pull down...

When I bare rooted this tree the roots go off in a radial pattern but the wire has nothing to pull down on... its like trying to wire down a handful of hair.

Thats why I do not Bareroot a tree going onto a bonsai pot

Ken

Rhuumz · Post by **Rhuumz** » January 14th, 2013, 5:32 pm

so basically what you guys are saying is that it was a dumb noob move bare rooting...

and that I should not bare root because it is infact a bad thing to do (omg the internet was wrong) unless I plan on slapping it into the ground or back into a growing pot...

Can I ask another question then...

IF I head down to my local nursery... pick up a plant... do all the preparation to move it into a bonsai pot.... then again from what I have read using diatomite can be a very beneficial potting mix due to its ability to hold water and provide oxygen to the roots without the product compacting or breaking down... Is it ok to have the mixture of the original soil it came with in its root ball and the diatomite?

And forward thinking in 1-2 years time when I need to re-pot but it has been in this half half mixture I can see this happening again? would the full grown root system be able to hang onto the diatomite to create a suitable root ball as each time I re-pot would i not lose more and more of the original soil ball?

Andrew Legg · Post by **Andrew Legg** » January 14th, 2013, 5:46 pm

Rhuumz,

It may not be dead yet mate, so with proper after care it could pull through. Keep it in a very shady spot. Reduce the foliage at the top by 15%. You have watered it well with Seasol, so that's good, now all you need to do is mist it as often as humanely possibly over the next 4 weeks and you may help it pull through. Keep the mix damp, but don't over water it. Admittedly chanced are not great, and if you see it going off green all over, then it's a gonner!

Good luck mate.

Isitangus · Post by **Isitangus** » January 14th, 2013, 6:16 pm

You could always skip the diatomite and plant in normal soil/potting mix etc...then no need to bare root etc. some light reading for you...then once you "get the hang of it" explore different soil mediums.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/BasicsW ... Bonsai.htm
http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics% ... otting.htm
http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics_Soils.html

Post by **kcpoole** » January 14th, 2013, 6:27 pm

Rhuumz wrote:so basically what you guys are saying is that it was a dumb noob move bare rooting...

and that I should not bare root because it is infact a bad thing to do (omg the internet was wrong) unless I plan on slapping it into the ground or back into a growing pot...

Can I ask another question then...

IF I head down to my local nursery... pick up a plant... do all the preparation to move it into a bonsai pot.... then again from what I have read using diatomite can be a very beneficial potting mix due to its ability to hold water and provide oxygen to the roots without the product compacting or breaking down... Is it ok to have the mixture of the original soil it came with in its root ball and the diatomite?

And forward thinking in 1-2 years time when I need to re-pot but it has been in this half half mixture I can see this happening again? would the full grown root system be able to hang onto the diatomite to create a suitable root ball as each time I re-pot would i not lose more and more of the original soil ball?

Check my Gallery I posted on the weekend, https://www.poolez.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=15126
The trees range in size from 4 inches in height, to 3 feet in height. Everyone of these is potted into Diatomite / Zeolite mix and they all have been repotted Numerous times.
They were all grown in or migrated to Diatomite / Zeolite mix for Several years to develop before potting up inot these pots and some of them these are still treated as grow pots.

When I root prune and repot them, the ball usually stays reasonably intact, so long as they do not shaken about too much

See this thread for a pic of my comp fig being repotted with Diatomite.

and that I should not bare root because it is infact a bad thing to do (omg the internet was wrong) unless I plan on slapping it into the ground or back into a growing pot...

Not at all. There are good reasons to Bare root a tree, ( Replacing Crappy Soil), Cleaning out infected soil, Wiring roots to shape. Just that it should not be done in mid summer generally, and on Specific trees it should not be done at all INHO (pines). I would Never bare root any tree in mid Summer.

Diatomite is not the be all and end all of Growing mediums, ( although for me it is

), it is not for everyone.
See Grants growing media tests for proof that any single component as a Growing medium, is a bad idea generally. A combination of components will far out perform any single component.
I know people that use my mix ( 1/3 Zeolite, 2/3 Diatomite), or 1/3 Diatomite, 1/3 zeolite, 1/3 Pumice, or 1/3 Diatomite, 1/3 zeolite, 1/3 Sifted pine bark, or 1/3 Diatomite, 1/6 zeolite, 1/6 Pumice 1/6 decomposed Granite 1/6 Pine bark.

The compositions are a s varied as the people who make them, and many just grab Ray Nescis organioc mix and Chuck in a handful of Diatomite to open it up a bit more.

IF I head down to my local nursery... pick up a plant... do all the preparation to move it into a bonsai pot...

Without knowing what the plant is, impossible to advise.
Every plant species is different in its requiirements, but none will make instant Bonsai. go and buy a plant, Chuck it in a Bonsai pot does not make it a bonsai . that would be called a Stick in a pot.
https://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... le=Mallsai

Ken

AusBonsai