pinus thunbergii yastabusa

[squizzy]

Hi all,

I picked up this yastabusa black pine last spring and have sat and wondered what the hell I should do with it ever since as it seemed a shame to cut off all the wonderfull healthy growth but it had to happen eventually so I have given it a haircut and crossed my fingers.

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Anyone with experience with the yastabusa variety? its seems to grow a bit more like the low glow Pinus densiflora with straight string sections of growth and a lot of buds. It looks pretty promising for a nice tightly compact tree. Should I treat it differently to the straight Black pine?

All thoughts welcome.

Squizz

[Mojo Moyogi]

Hi Squizzy, A few years back I was lucky enough to buy 20 or so P.thunbergii 'Yatsabusta' that were grown from seed, not grafted. Forget everything you know about dwarf varieties being weak, in my experience Yatsabusa JBP grow very strongly and back-bud profusely. I have one which I will be planting in the ground and using just for cuttings that has been allowed to grow freely and still has only 15-20mm long needles.
Definitely the best JBP for shohin.

Cheers,
Mojo

[Jow]

Hi Squizzy, A few years back I was lucky enough to buy 20 or so P.thunbergii 'Yatsabusta' that were grown from seed, not grafted. Forget everything you know about dwarf varieties being weak, in my experience Yatsabusa JBP grow very strongly and back-bud profusely. I have one which I will be planting in the ground and using just for cuttings that has been allowed to grow freely and still has only 15-20mm long needles.
Definitely the best JBP for shohin.

Cheers,
Mojo

Hi Mojo,

How do you find the growth? Most i have seen seem very course at the tips unlike normal black pines. I don't remember seeing many yatsabusa shohin pines when i was in Japan.... not sure why that is though?

[LLK]

Jow, it's no wonder you consider the tips of the JBP "yatsabusa" coarse, as "yatsabusa" (sp!) means "eight buds". It's not really a dwarf, but a medium tree that grows to 3 m. plus. You'll find the adjective "yatsabusa" applied to other tree species as well, e.g. maples.
I have a JBP yatsabusa, and a veritable headache it has been! Before I bought it, it had been pruned incorrectly and the excessively dense growth resulted in a bad inverse taper. I pruned and cut and pruned some more, and now it's a very free form pine. Yes, nice short needles like Mojo says. My advice to you, Mojo, is Watch out the growth of your JBP's doesn't get out of hand, the way mine did.

Lisa

[Mojo Moyogi]

Jow, it's no wonder you consider the tips of the JBP "yatsabusa" coarse, as "yatsabusa" (sp!) means "eight buds". It's not really a dwarf, but a medium tree that grows to 3 m. plus. You'll find the adjective "yatsabusa" applied to other tree species as well, e.g. maples.
I have a JBP yatsabusa, and a veritable headache it has been! Before I bought it, it had been pruned incorrectly and the excessively dense growth resulted in a bad inverse taper. I pruned and cut and pruned some more, and now it's a very free form pine. Yes, nice short needles like Mojo says. My advice to you, Mojo, is Watch out the growth of your JBP's doesn't get out of hand, the way mine did.

Lisa

Lisa,
you do have to be judicious about removing opposite branching and bud thinning, they will go reverse easily if left to their own devices, hence why some of my original Yatsa JBP's have been relegated to 'stock' trees. Properly handled, I'm confident that they can produce nice tapered trunks. I'll know more when my 2nd generation of cuttings (with radial roots) get properly underway. While I was spared ugly graft unions on the original trees, they did have "nursery" style roots.

Hi Mojo,

How do you find the growth? Most i have seen seem very course at the tips unlike normal black pines. I don't remember seeing many yatsabusa shohin pines when i was in Japan.... not sure why that is though?

Hi Joe,
Coarse. Not really. A lot of the grafted Yatsabusas in regular plant nurseries seem to have been given the 'canopy' treatment, which is not ideal. A few of mine are naturally a bit less than elegant, having been raised from seed there is variations in most attributes, needle length, colour and growth habit in particular. Time will tell.

Regarding their use in Japan, the Bonsai Today article on developing JBP seedling cuttings in collanders has a few Yatsabusa JBPs in it at the end.

Cheers,
Mojo

[Jow]

I meant course as opposed to fine twiggy tips. They may do it as the ones i have seen have not been maintained at a high level.

I look forward to seeing your results in a few years.

Joe.

[squizzy]

Thanks for the input guys. Particularly mojo. I am sure this particular tree will teach me a great deal about yatsabusa even of it ends up being my stock tree. As far as its shape goes it was the best I could find in the batch of about 10. I would be happy to get a few more and do a bit of experimenting. I will keep in mind the reverse taper thing as I could see why that would become an issue given the density of growth. Like I said, very similar to pinus densiflora low glow.

Squizz

[Sean M]

Hey Squizzy,
Can I ask where you purchased it from?

[squizzy]

I got it at ray nesci but I think he gets them in from somewhere else.

Squizz

[LLK]

I will keep in mind the reverse taper thing as I could see why that would become an issue given the density of growth.

Mojo, I had another look at my yatsabusa and that reminded me of the main reason for its inverse taper: it is grafted onto JBP species stock (not a cultivar) which doesn't grow as fast as the yatsabusa, so the scion is thicker than the stock. On top of that it had several branches growing right above the union which made the yatsabusa trunk even thicker. You will be spared those problems with your seed-grown trees and I'm sure you'll end up with a number of really nice ones!

Lisa

[Mojo Moyogi]

Lisa when I can manage to generate a number of good cutting grown Yatsabusas, I'll have to send you one or two.

Cheers,
Mojo

[LLK]

That is very kind of you, thanks, Mojo!

Lisa

[PeterH]

Squizzy,

I have a large Yatsubusa,

It still has reverse taper but was advised that over time and either ground growing or a larger pot will loose that reverse taper.

Regards,

Peter

[squizzy]

Thanks for the advise Peter.

Squizz

[jessepap]

Thanks for the advise Peter.

Squizz

Hi Squizzy

any update & pics on this pine?