Trident Maple Group progression

[maple]

Over the years I have created a few Groups mainly with 20+ trees. I like the dense forests with trees planted very close together. The largest group completed has been 50+ Palmatums in a 24" tray that is around 10yrs old.(pic attached)
I have a 5m Trident in my backyard originally purchased as Bonsai material but abandoned. It has grown beautifully and now self seeds up to 500 plants a year. I decided I wanted to create a forest planting from this tree with 100+ trees on a fibreglass slab I had, that was imported from Japan in the early 90's. To achieve a planting with so many trees I have grown the trees from seedlings tight together in 3's, 4's, 5's and more over a couple of year period. This will help achieve the variable height and thicknesses that are important to a Group planting.
In 2010, I had a number of trees planted together in readiness to eventually put together.
In 2011, I further collected seedling planting them together, repotting the previous years trees to larger pots for thickening.
I put my "first" group of 1 and 2yo trees together and further planted new seasons seedlings together.
In 2012, I repotted my "first" group while using the next lot of trees to create my "2nd" and "3rd" groups being careful to ensure they were not taller than the "first" group to ensure the overall group triangle.
March 2013, I am continuing to trim and shape these three groups so they can come together as one planting. There are around 70 trees in the 3 groups created already and I have plenty (200~) of trees planted in multiples to plant around the setting. A photo attached has all the trees together to gauge if I have the triangle about right.
Winter 2013, I intend to put the Group together with at least 120 trees.
As much as it is an exercise of numbers, I want to show space around the group. The Group wont look like an old forest of trees for some time but I am hoping the effect will be a pleasing grove of trees. Often people cannot get their trees close enough together because the root systems have not be prepared well enough. This is my way. Obviously, if I wanted an older looking group sooner, I would have left the trees longer in training pots to thicken and get more branch ramification. I think planting together early is important to reduce stress to roots and heavy cutting to nebari's.
I have wired the trees each year so there will be minimal work in the final arrangement because I have learnt from experience the difficulty of trying to keep trunks from crossing over each other and looking untidy. As the group matures, I will need to remove inner branching to let in as much light as possible and ensure it does not look like a hedge. The plan is to create 2 triangles that come into 1 uneven triangle to create the canopy.
I hope this is of interest to someone. There are many ways to create a Group planting and this is just one.

[Kyushu Danji]

Your Palmatum group is inspirational. Thanks for sharing! It would be great if at some stage you could share more information with us about how you develop and refine your stock for these compositions, and your maintenance regime over the course of the year.

[Neli]

Very good looking group planting. Wish it was mine.
I am a newbie so I would lke to ask:
Dont you think it is a bit too high for the trunk thickness of the trees, or it is OK for a group planting. Maybe you plan to thicken them in time...or is it done to accommodate the size of the leaf.
At what stage re you now in developing this group? Have You done leaf reduction yet?
Dont you think it might look better if there were some empty spaces within the group?
This are not suggestions, just newbie questions?

[jezz_39]

Will be an impressive forest, thats for sure! Was going to comment on the 50+ group regarding the placement of trees, as the composition seems to be generally comprised around the centre of the pot and would love to see a few trees more towards the front or leaning towards the viewer. Nevermind though, as they will be combined into one big group.
Look forward to seeing this come winter, I also envy the Autumn colours you achieve, Palmatums dont do too well at all in SE QLD

[maple]

Hi Kyushu,
it's a matter of constant trimming to increase ramification. Ensuring Diameters and heights are correct and trunks dont cross. Removing branches when other branches increase density. Repotting the Palmatum is simple. All the trees roots have fused so I treat it like 1 tree. They all just lift out together.
Hi Neli,
Some might think the trees are too tall but I think they're OK. As long as diameters and height ratios are OK, then I think it's OK. I agree the trees would have looked a lot thicker if shorter. I dont think the guideline is as important in groups compared to a single tree. Haven't looked at leaf size reduction yet but agree this will help. I was always trying to limit the amount of foliage because the trees are so vigourus.
Jezz,
thanks for looking. Maybe it's the photo but the trees are leaning forward. Maybe more could be good. The front was left to have some space in front of the smaller group. I think the photographer could do better. It's difficult to get the perspective right!

[jezz_39]

Thought that would be the case, extremely hard to capture the 3D movement through a photograph, perhaps a side view would give us more perspective
I wonder if you've thought of bringing the main tree towards the front more, to give the rest the feeling of added perspective?

[Kyushu Danji]

Thank you for your response. Do you also defoliate the trees, or have plans to try and decrease the leaf size? I also like the pot you have chosen, the colour suits this species very well.

[maple]

Kyushu,
I haven't defoliated that group but you right- it would a benefit.
The pot colour is perfect in Autumn but you will find a lot of people who will tell you blue is not the colour they would choose for a Palmatum. It's not a rule breaker- just a personal preference.

Jezz,
the main tree is positioned just over 1/3 to the left length ways and exactly in the centre "depth ways" so it should be OK. Like we said, a better photo would be better. I have actually sold that group to a friend and he will be exhibiting in a Winter show so I will try to photograph then without foliage to give you a better idea.

[jezz_39]

No worries, thanks for the reply, Maple. Definitely look forward to seeing the winter silhouette of this group.
I find it very mysterious how the group setting of a deciduous species differs between the winter silhouette and in leaf. I enjoy seeing it in leaf as one whole composition, but then once bare, you get to see the branch structure and ramification of each tree as an individual. Again, I do like it, especially the Autumn notes

[Neli]

Thanks! One dilemma cleared.

[lackhand]

I'm inspired by the long term prep you show maple. Most forest planting progressions I have seen start with something like, "I got all these cheap at some store/dug them up at the same time." The patience and prep work shown here will surely result in a much better overall composition. I've been thinking about a forest myself, and I'll take this to heart, so thanks for sharing.

Also, I'm extremely jealous of your maples. I have always loved them, but just too hot for them to be very happy here. I'll be moving in a few years, and some maples will probably be my first purchase after that.

[maple]

I have always loved them, but just too hot for them to be very happy here. I'll be moving in a few years, and some maples will probably be my first purchase after that.

Thanks lackhand,
I have found my maples can tolerate heat OK. I only water once a day even in the hottest, windy day because I am away at work 14hrs a day. The sun is the enemy. As long as they under 50-60% (cream)shadecloth after 2pm they are fine. I recently moved my collection in the backyard and the trees suffered this year because they got too much sun and had no protection. Now, over 30 degrees, I move them under shade for the day until I fix the new area. We're in Autumn here now so hopefully not too many moves left!

[lackhand]

I have always loved them, but just too hot for them to be very happy here. I'll be moving in a few years, and some maples will probably be my first purchase after that.

Thanks lackhand,
I have found my maples can tolerate heat OK. I only water once a day even in the hottest, windy day because I am away at work 14hrs a day. The sun is the enemy. As long as they under 50-60% (cream)shadecloth after 2pm they are fine. I recently moved my collection in the backyard and the trees suffered this year because they got too much sun and had no protection. Now, over 30 degrees, I move them under shade for the day until I fix the new area. We're in Autumn here now so hopefully not too many moves left!

I know they did fine in the heat where I'm from, but the weather here is pretty punishing.

The temperature reaches and exceeds 100°F (38°C), on average for 110 days of the year,[27] including most days from late May through to early September. Highs top 110 °F (43 °C) an average of 18 days during the year. On June 26, 1990, the temperature reached an all-time recorded high of 122 °F (50 °C).

I think they can be grown here, but only with lots of attention that I really just can't give them right now. On the bright side, this has led me to experimenting with all the Aus natives that seem to love it here.

[maple]

Just an update. I put the group together last weekend and still doing a few adjustments here and there. 160-170 trees used. The next year(s) will be creating branches to the outer small trees and creating and maintaining the canopy. I think it will look better once the trunks thicken a little. The exercise was all about getting the trees close together while they were young and the root balls fine.

[Andrew F]

Beautiful work so far, its going to be a impressive dense canopy. How will you train the secondary branches, clip and grow?