[ID] help please Cypress maybe???

[Damian79]

Hi guys I picked up this little beauty from a nursery but im not sure exactly what it is. I have invluded a pic of the label but im not sure its right. Can anyone please help me with an ID.

[alpineart]

Hi Damien79, mate i managed a google search and it does come up with Mexican White cedar . I would treat and train it along the same lines as an Eastern White Cedar Thuja Occidentals , Google search Eastern White and have a look at the styles used to the advantage of the foliage .They have similar foliage and the weeping habit of this specimen and would suit the styles used mostly for the Eastern White Cedar . Slanting style , wind swept , contorted if you like , but remember its a weeper not an upright growing foliage .

I would slip pot it into a bigger pot as per the topic "Simple Slip Potting" be it a bigger plastic pot cut down in height to allow for the slanting grow plan i suggest or a big mother bonsai pot . When you slip pot and slice the root ball , check that your not severing any main roots . When you fold them outwards this reduces the height of the root mass by 50% but increases the spread 2 fold hence the much bigger pot required . An alternative would be to use a polystyrene fruit box or similar . Then let it grow while you decide the outcome of your tree.

Its not an easy specimen to work with but i think i would make for a nice slanting style with the lower branches grown on top of the trunk . This will give you the option to incorporate it into the final design as an apex , secondary leader or strip it for a jin and shari . Basically tilt it over to the left about 45 degree's in the last pic , maybe a slight rotation to ensure the lower main branches are growing upper most or balanced 1 way or the other . Plant it at that angle and let it grow for another year and see what you think then .

I assume that's a 150mm pot so it's realatively young or very slow growing . Note the bar branches at every point , again don't cut them off yet they will aid its thickening of the trunk and you can't put them back on later . All the best with it .

Cheers Alpineart

[Damian79]

Thanks Alpine, I think that is probably what ill do. Ive posted another pick that shows the entire front of the tree is already "Windswept" anyway so that mayl be the best way to proceed. I just hope im not biting off more than i can chew as a beginer LOL.

[alpineart]

Hi Damien79, mate looking at these pics i would bend it back to the right so the upper foliage is growing up . That's the issue when not seeing the tree in the flesh . A semi cascade for be another option bent to the right ignoring the lower branches although maintaining them as sacrifice branches to fatten the trunk .This seems to have a few options so don't make ant hasty decisions . Don't bend and twist it to see if its going to look the goods , see the tree or style first , then wire and style or you may just kill the bugger from over manipulation .

Go out and find a branch on a conifer , cut it off and have a play with it , there's bound to be a similar type foliage plant around your area . Good luck .

Cheers Alpine

[Damian79]

Hi guys
Just an update on this tree. Gave it a first styling, removed some foliage that was hardening off and turning brown So hopefully this this will send the energy to the foliage that is not dying.
Any thoughts/comments are welcome.

restyle 2.jpg

Im still not 100% on exact species so any further help on that would be great too.
Thanks
Damo

[Damian79]

Lackhand,
have you seen these in th US at all? Still dont know what it is for sure.

[lackhand]

Lackhand,
have you seen these in th US at all? Still dont know what it is for sure.

Yeah, I've seen a few Mexican white cedar (aka Mexican cypress), the ones I've seen do have that weeping habit to them and I think the label (Cupressus lusitanica) is probably correct. Browsing my local club's website, I don't see anything about them but I'll ask around at the next meeting and see if I can dig any info up for you.

I'll admit readily though that I'm no expert at cypress vs cedar vs juniper identification, it makes my head spin. Something I'll have to study more one of these days.

By the way, I like what you've done with the tree, looks like a good start with some nice movement.

[Neli]

As far as I know Probably only newbies buy tuja type of foliage trees...I know since I bought one too. But I have seen a couple in japan styled.
I dont know bonsai much but plants I know well. This is not so hard to back bud, and what I should have done first is not remove the foliage on the branches near the trunk but leave it for now to recover and then chop the outer foliage in order to make in back bud nearer to the trunk, and not have such long bare branches. You can still do that, and after back budding cut the branch again till you have buds where You want them. If the branches become too old later it will be hard to bring the foliage near the trunk.
Hope it helps.

[lackhand]

As far as I know Probably only newbies buy tuja type of foliage trees...I know since I bought one too.

I keep hearing this, but I don't buy it. In some areas they are considered a good species for bonsai. They may not be the best ever, but I think you can make good bonsai out of them. I say work with what you have available and find inspiring - or if you're broke like me, what you find cheap. Both of the articles in those links are about thuja occidentalis just to be clear. I think the advice would be good for cupressus lusitanica too as its a similar tree, adapted to a different environment.

[Neli]

They are hard when it comes to creating foliage pads. I have decided to concentrate on plants that are easy to style and maintain...that is why I said that. But some people really love tuja...I have several that I am trying to give a try...and the surprising thing is that I dug out...with very few roots a huge 4m tuja, trunk chopped it...and it back budded up to the base of the plant. Plus I air layered it.
But as to styling it into pads....It will be a long process.

I looked at your link:
If cedars have a drawback, it must be their foliage. It is similar to the foliage of Hinoki cypress but not as tight. On the other hand, it is not as curly. Fronds will grow every which way, and the view of regular cedar foliage can be daunting for the cedar novice (figure 3). However, with judicious pruning and pinching (figures 4 and 5), it can be forced to behave and form foliage pads not unlike those of junipers.

Quote:
While I have seen cedars bud back on 3OO-year-old trunks in the bush, I have never had that happen on the trees I grow as bonsai. There must be special ingredients in the air "up north." Anyway, they do bud back on younger twigs, and also on areas of the trunk where branches are already growing (figure 6)-a somewhat redundant feature.

Look at mine how it back budded:


and to make it even more weird...My gardener stuck in the ground big branches I cut off ( i never told him to) removed all the foliage (That is what I do with my hard wood cuttings) and they back budded up to ground level.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 3777_n.jpg

[Damian79]

Thanks guys for your input

I say work with what you have available and find inspiring - or if you're broke like me, what you find cheap.

I understand this 100% and is very much what im able to get at the moment.
Over the last two months the more I looked at this tree the more I fell in love with it and Im happy with the direction its heading at the moment. With any luck it will back bud a little but for now I just hope it stays alive for me. As I said its been browning off and losing foliage so I hope the trim up restores some life to it.

[Neli]

Just try to bring the foliage nearer to the trunk...It will back bud 99% sure! But to be 100% sure do it on stages.

[Damian79]

From what I found looking on google, these tend to "shed" the inner foliage coming into winter and regrow it in spring? only the inner foliage though and keeps the foliage on the end of its branches. Sounds weird but hopefully this will help fill out the foliage pads a little. Its going to be very interesting to watch it change over the coming months.

[lackhand]

From what I found looking on google, these tend to "shed" the inner foliage coming into winter and regrow it in spring? only the inner foliage though and keeps the foliage on the end of its branches. Sounds weird but hopefully this will help fill out the foliage pads a little. Its going to be very interesting to watch it change over the coming months.

I think you're right, inner foliage dieback is somewhat the norm on these, so not anything to get really alarmed about.

Haven't been able to make it to any club meetings and ask about these for you. I've got a busy spell at school until the end of June, so no time for club meetings until then - unfortunately the local club takes a few months off in the summer because it's so hot, so it may be September. Just wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten, but it will be a while before I have a chance to research and get back to you mate.