Atlas Cedar setting trunk movement

[alpineart]

This is a method i use to set movement in trunks of cedars be it Atlas or Deodora . A basic seed grow 12mm trunk plant ,

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i usually prefer to use 10mm or less as the set quicker depending on the amount of foliage . Grab a piece of bamboo and round the end off so it doesn't damage the roots

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.. Insert it into the pot all the way down to the bottom .

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Apply some tape as a cushion , anything to hold it , then place a wire over the tape just to secure the trunk and stake together .

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Now wind the trunk around the stake ,

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do not simply bend the trunk around as this will prevent it from sliding up the stake as it grows . When you progress up the trunk remove any foliage that will interfere with the stake . When your half way up the stake apply a wire around the trunk/leader or branch that is going to be removed just to hold it and prevent it from unwinding .

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Don't apply it tight as the bark will markjust in case you decide to use that branch /apex in the finished design . Study the trunk for movement and if you want more movement simply slide it down the stake to compress the trunk . . When your a happy camper continue to wind the rest of the trunk all the way to the apex .

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Any branches that interfere ie whorls simply cut them off

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. Apply a wire ti the tip of the trunk , note the new side shoot will become the new leader so it doesn't matter if the tip is wired firmer to hold the wound trunk in place

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. Wire the branches with some movement and now i have a cedar with good movement and branch placement .

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There is still plenty of new rosette's to create the branching require . This is now set ready for the rest of the growing season .Last thing to do is remove the wire and tape from the base of the trunk . This exercise takes me about 10 minutes , take your time and the results will work out well in your favor .

Cheers Alpineart

[Rintar]

thanks Alpine

Muchly appreciated

cheers

[alpineart]

Hi Rintar , mate if you want to make it into a cascade simply cut the stake off at ground level and simply bend the trunk over and secure to the lip of the pot . Hope to see a progression on your cedars .

Cheers Alpine

[Trent McKenzie]

Great advice there Alpine, thanks for sharing.

[alpineart]

Hi Trent , mate hope it helps out , it prevents bark damage that's for sure . .

Cheers Alpine

[dansai]

Thanks for posting this alpine.

How long do you leave them bound up for? And do you have any pictures of trees a few seasons on after they have been treated this way?

Thanks
Dan

[alpineart]

Hi Dansai , mate with small material 1-2 years old , a single growing season will see them set and hold most movement . The older the material the longer it takes to set . I have a topic here "Cedrus Deodara trainers" which shows several styles trained in this fashion . While Deodara grow quicker and fatten more than an Atlas in a season all must be carefully watched as wire marks in either will be long lasting and increase with time .

Cheers Alpine

[dansai]

Thanks Alpine.

Is that why you use the stick method to avoid wire?

I put some curves in a Deodara using wire and posted it here. You may have already seen it. I will need to repot this come spring and so the anchor wires will need to come off and I'm wondering if I should remove all the wire and try your method. It is a bit older and thicker than your stock but still very flexible.

Here's a pic to go by.

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The top section going to the right was left as an anchor point and will be removed back to the new leader.

[alpineart]

Hi Dansai , a 5mm wire mark will increase to a 20mm scar and more over time , i marked a trunk 15 years ago it was 8-10mm wire mark barely visible , now its a 40mmx 25mm calloused scar and as ugly as sin compared to the rest of the trunk . The tree in question was an Atlas cedar placed in the ground and within 6 months the wire had marked the bark on one bend .This is when i decided to use the stick/pole method and slings to hold the trunks of the cedars .

Deodara's grow a lot quicker and the way this tree is wired and bent it will no doubt have many marks in the bark in a very short period .Its possible that they are already there with the simple movement you have placed on the trunk , you don't see them until its too late . A removed branch scar heals and reduces over time but a wire mark increases in length and width on cedars .

The dowel , a stick even a pipe will allow the tree to slide up as long as the trunk is wound around and not simple bent around . Hook and hold guide wires have been used with shade cloth slings at various points to pull the trunk in various directions and compressions . I use slings on branches on any tree that will mark easy from Japanese Maple to Cedars , i also use these same slings as temporary branch anchor placements on larger pines .

Cheers Alpine

[dansai]

Thanks Alpine for that info. Looks like I'll be doing some wire removal today.

[Mojo Moyogi]

Hi Dansai, don't give up on the wire just yet. 4-5mm wire on young Cedars will give you a better level of control in regards to being able to mix different radius bends in one bend and eliminate the regularity of s-curves that wrapping around stakes will tend to give you. If you were to wrap the trunk first in raffia or rubber bike tube (or both) then wire tightly, you take the wire biting in to the trunk out of the equation and get the control you need to make a dynamic trunk, with the all important diminishing bends at the top.

For example, here's a little Atlas Cedar that I have in the shohin comp.

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What is a little hard to see in a 2d image is that the 4 or 5 curves in the trunk that are obvious, are actually combination bends of 10-15 different radius, forward, back, left and right. This trunk will be set in 6-12 months with hardly a mark despite the tight wire.

Cheers,
Mojo

[dansai]

Thanks Mojo

So would you recommend taking wire off and wrapping first with rubber?

And have you found the same as Alpine that small scars can grow?

Cheers Dan

[Mojo Moyogi]

Thanks Mojo

So would you recommend taking wire off and wrapping first with rubber?

Yeah Dan, that is how I would be approaching it. It is a horses for courses kind of choice, if I had 200 Cedars to trunk wire and I wasn't sure that I could inspect them on a regular basis to check for wire constriction, and all I was trying to do is put a little wiggle in them to make them look nicer than they would look if they were thin and straight, then wrapping them around a stake makes a heap of practical sense. From a design point of view, a thin straight trunk screams immaturity, no matter how well you hang a set of branches on it. Add some interesting curves to the same trunk, build branches and you have the beginnings of a presentable Literati, perfectly fine if they are thin and don't have a lot of taper. In my opinion, wiring gives flexibility in design that is nearly impossible to achieve using stakes, pull-downs, clamps or clip and grow. A real advantage with wiring trunks like this is that it is very easy to compress section of trunk between branch tiers as you go up the trunk. Instead of dropping branches down or wiring them up into an ideal location for a branch pad, usually at the outside of a bend for aesthetic reasons, you get a much better result if you use a series of trunk curves to not only add variety of movement, but also soak up the vertical distance between branch bases, have the branches EXIT on the outside of a curve closer to where the foliage pad needs to be. Looks a lot better and much less contrived than a branch manipulated in a way that is out of character with the rest of the branches, just to fill empty space in a canopy. The rubber or raffia wrapping gives the safety net needed to apply heavy wire and bend a thin trunk, just the act of applying a 5mm wire to a thin trunk exerts a lot of force, on unprotected trunks indentations can and do occur right from the start. Bending it, adjusting those bends, that is a lot of stress and risk without protection. Cedars have thick bark and it is easy to have the bark separate from the wood when bending them with just wire alone.

And have you found the same as Alpine that small scars can grow?

Yes, what Alpine has said is true, I have sort of touched on why that happens above, if you leave wire on a Cedar for too long, and it imbeds in the trunk even to only a third of its diameter, you will get long term scarring that does expand. Even with many years growth, mature bark on cedars does not completely hide the result of severe wire constriction, not even when the impression in the bark has flattened out. The texture of the bark is often different or darker, you don't want that spiraling up your 20 year old trunk. Stakes left too long are not ideal either as it turns out. I used to wire Squamata Junipers years ago for a nursery, they were all staked and growing in 20cm pots like that for 2-3 years, my job was to wire branches to make the trees saleable and leave the trunks as is and retain the existing height as much as possible. A lot of them had vertical impressions from the stakes.

Dan, both methods (stakes and wire) work, a lot depends on the material you are working with, ideally young material with plenty of small branches or buds right the way up the trunk is best, but your tree is workable, but I suspect too large for Alpines method in any case. At a glance, the biggest challenge is the lack of foliage on the branches in close.

I've found there are a few tricks to getting the rubber wrap applied correctly to provide the best result, if you want to give it a try, you need to cut off the existing wire asap, look closely at the trunk for any signs of damage that occurred while applying the wire and bending. I'm more than happy to talk you through as little or as much of the project as you like, whatever you need to make the tree look great to you. If you are prepared to be patient with the trunk, it may be a good idea to concentrate for a year on getting foliage growing where you want it, replace the foliage that you have removed, looking at what branches to retain, possible fronts etc. and get a bit of a design plan going, maybe give the tree some relief from it's current soil. Making a decent tree out of her is going to be a stressful thing if you are going to wire the bejesus out of it, no matter how careful you take it. Getting the tree flying along makes a lot of sense, if the tree is growing steadily, the trunk when it is wired will set better too.

Just to give me an idea on scale, how big is the pot that the tree is in, what size wire is on it at the moment and how far up the trunk is the base of the 1st right branch?

For the long drawn out reply, my apologies. I seem to have made a design conversation out of trying to point out that you do have alternatives, and hijacked Alpine's thread somewhat in the process. Time for some shut-eye I think.

Cheers,
Mojo

[alpineart]

Hi Mojo , mate your explanation is more detailed than mine and using a different procedure . I don't see any hijacking here with this type of positive input to any topic's .

Hi dansai , with all the info you have now you should be able to avoid scarring issue's consistent with wiring or staking of Cedars . I will take some pics of the scar on my cedar to show the extreme results of scarring . I also had a play yesterday with this staked trunk and will do an update on stage 2 shortly .

Cheers Guys

[MoGanic]

Hi Mojo , mate your explanation is more detailed than mine and using a different procedure . I don't see any hijacking here with this type of positive input to any topic's .

Makes me smile this stuff does =D

-Mo