Kurume development help please

[Andrew Legg]

Hi All,

I have recently acquired 5 or 6 small nursery stock bags of Kurume Christmas Cheer. Here's one of them.

IMG-20130707-00428.jpg

I'd like to ask you for some guidance on how to take these little shrubs on the road to bonsai. My intention is to ground/colander grow them to get some good size trunks, and whilst I realise that that's a long term project, I'd like to start it off right. I'd also like to use the stock to take cuttings as these are not that easy to find in Cape Town. I have no experience with Azaleas at all, so I'm hoping you can get me started off on the right foot.

So, what I do know is that:

1.) They should be in semi-shade
2.) They should not be heavily fertilised with Chook Poo
3.) They like an acidic free draining mix
4.) They like cool roots
5.) Brittle when they thicken up
6.) Very thin bark so caution when wiring
7.) Basally dominant
8.) Very fine roots
9.) Repot after flowering

Here's a picture of the base of this specific bag. Pretty much all the others are very similar.

IMG-20130707-00429.jpg

Thickest trunk is about 10mm across and it just seems like a muddle. As you can see, I sprayed a bit of the top-soil out to try to see what's going on, but I've heard that azaleas don't like too much root disturbance, so I'm hesitant to go too much lower. It looks to me as if these are a bunch of cuttings that have been dropped into a bursery bag to fill out and make a "nice looking bush ready for sale". So, questions are:

1.) When should I separate them and how aggressive can I be with the roots?
2.) Can I bare root them, or should I bare root them to see what I've got?
3.) I am not going to be able to bend the thicker stems, so should I keep them on the plants until they are established in individual colanders/growboxes, or do I cut them off now to reduce the foliage load on the roots for when I divide them?
4.) If I remove the buds from them, and don't let them flower, can they be divided now?
5.) There are loads of basal shoots on some of these plants. Can these be used for cuttings? I've heard cuttings are best taken from new growth after flowering.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Cheers,

Andrew

[Andrew Legg]

Completely unashamed . My first in 900 posts

[kcpoole]

Lol that's ok buddy
Will get chance later in the week to reply in detail
Out of town at the moment

[Andrew Legg]

Lol that's ok buddy
Will get chance later in the week to reply in detail
Out of town at the moment

Thanks Ken, I feel better now knowing that someone cares!

[Haydenmc]

this isnt going to be particularly useful advice on how to progress the tree - just some observations on the few kurume i dug last year.
In November i dug 4 old trees that were going to be bulldozed - they had been growing in rubbish topsoil through a black plastic weedmat, i basically ripped them from the ground and washed the roots totally clean, i then cut 3 of them down to basically 12cm high trunks with almost no foliage on them, i left one a fair bit longer as i liked the taper and was going to tray a crazy azalea cascade with it. Anyway it had the most foliage left on and has really struggled this year, where as the other 3 are so dense with new growth i can no longer see the trunks - so it seems totally bare rooting isnt a problem. What youve got doesnt seem too thick so with some careful work you probably could get some movement in it - i managed to in a secondary trunk that is about 14mm diameter - just slowly with a turnbuckle so i wasnt tempted to really get some pressure on it like i do with my young pines.
Just my experiences.
Lovely flowers on that one - how about a clumpy style accent plant with one of them? Just hedge cut it and hope for the best?

cheers

H

[Andrew Legg]

this isnt going to be particularly useful advice on how to progress the tree - just some observations on the few kurume i dug last year.
In November i dug 4 old trees that were going to be bulldozed - they had been growing in rubbish topsoil through a black plastic weedmat, i basically ripped them from the ground and washed the roots totally clean, i then cut 3 of them down to basically 12cm high trunks with almost no foliage on them, i left one a fair bit longer as i liked the taper and was going to tray a crazy azalea cascade with it. Anyway it had the most foliage left on and has really struggled this year, where as the other 3 are so dense with new growth i can no longer see the trunks - so it seems totally bare rooting isnt a problem. What youve got doesnt seem too thick so with some careful work you probably could get some movement in it - i managed to in a secondary trunk that is about 14mm diameter - just slowly with a turnbuckle so i wasnt tempted to really get some pressure on it like i do with my young pines.
Just my experiences.
Lovely flowers on that one - how about a clumpy style accent plant with one of them? Just hedge cut it and hope for the best?

cheers

H

Thanks mate - interesting info!

[shibui]

Hi Andrew,
Azaleas very easy from cuttings but the ones you have already have plenty of rooted stems (pot layered) from being planted a little deep in the pots. You can cut off any rooted stems even if you have to cut the roots really short they should grow and will be quicker than cuttings ie you can be very aggressive with roots. Cuttings generally recommeded after flowering but will root at any time of year. Very quick to layer - just bend a branch down to the soil (will often root even when near the soil but not actually touching ).
I dug the last lot in summer and all but 1 have recovered well. A couple of years ago I got some that had been dug up by builders and left on the verge for a week - both recovered. Most of my limited experience as of late spring/summer dividing/ bare rooting but I think they would probably be ok now. If in doubt try 1 and then do the rest later?

I would remove all excess stems and shorten the larger stems that you intend to keep to force new buds where you want change of direction or branches. Azalea bud profusely when cut back, even to bare wood.

No problem with bare rooting but you might need the hose to clean off the roots - lots of fine roots generally. You might find the original root system below the new surface roots but usually the new roots have thickened the trunks so old roots are no use because of inverse taper.

not that easy to find in Cape Town.

There is usually a reason for plants not readily available - may be the soil or water or climate does not suit? So do not be too disappointed if these go backwards. At my last place I could not keep them alive for more than a year at a time. I think they did not like the water but growing well here just 10km away. best of luck

[Andrew Legg]

Thanks Shibui,

I'll try to separate one out this weekend and post up how it goes. There are plenty of Azaleas here in Cape Town and every nursery stocks them, but just not Kurume Azaleas. What I do find interesting is that a lot of folk here suggest that being too aggressive with roots kills them. Ho hum. This is different to what I hear here, so question is, can you be rough on the roots of small plants with less stored energy, or is it only the big guns that handle it well? Perhaps the trick is to defoliate when aggressively working the roots?

Cheers,

Andrew

[craigw60]

I frequently haul old kurume azalea out of various gardens around here. I think brutal would be a better term than aggressive for the way I treat them. I lose the odd one but more often they survive. Their fibrous root system means they root prune very easily, best done after flowering in mid spring then plenty of shade until they show signs of recovery and be careful of over watering wet feet means certain death.
Craigw

[kcpoole]

Hi Andrew, Got some quick snaps today of some of mine

I read a n article somewhere a few years ago, on how the Japanese develop the trunks on the trees there.
They said they wire them early to give the trunk shape and movement, then let them grow wild to set and thicken up.
Trunk chop and repeat with a new shoot and this will develop a trunk with movement and taper over quite a few years.

I have taken the approach with several, to give some single upright trunk. but also have some clumps like you have starting. You could cut some back to 1 trunk and leave others as a clump style.

Either way, only keep some of the shoots, while letting the others grow un hindered.

As Craig says, I also find them pretty hardy and take root pruning well. Some I have collected from gardens, others from Layers or cuttings

Ken

[Andrew Legg]

Hi Craig and Ken, thanks for your inputs. I intend to grow these as single trees, so want to separate them out into their own grow-on pots. This is why I'm asking about the roots, because I don't want to kill 'em as I do this.

I'll start with one and see how it goes and then do the other.

Cheers,

Andrew