New Trident Forrest

[Bretts]

Finally found enough trees around the garden and made the time to put this together while the youngest was asleep.
The trees where very harshly bare root pruned. Only ones that where left with a decent spead where used. I wasn't sure I was going to be able to make them stay up though
I wasn't able to get it exactly as I wanted but I think with some further adjustment next repotting I will get what I was after. too fragile to wire at thye moment

forrest.jpg

forrest2.jpg

forrest3.jpg

I have a mud map of what I think needs changing and would be intrested in comparing this with what others think.

[anttal63]

configuration and placing is working a treat bretts well done. its all in the styling now as soon as its stable to work on. maybe a defoliation and wire mid summer? i really really dig the way the main tree and companion (perspective) move together from the base. be sure to follow that motif in the main trunk with the little one. the alternate roots of the pair draw the eye in to the start of the journey and offer a great deal of stability. milk those 2 roots. oops im waffling most of all have fun.

[daiviet_nguyen]

Hi Brett,

I like the setting in general. I immediate thought was that it would require a lot of attention during
the hot months, given the shallowness of the pot and all.

Base on the first photo, the group on the left is very harmonious. I feel that the group on the right
is dominated by the biggest tree. In fact, this tree is very prominent in the entire setting. I feel that
a smaller tree would give a better balance?

These are just my personal opinions, and hence very subjective. I hope you are okay with them.

Best regards.

[anttal63]

as other trees develope the big one will be less dominating. no i got the right front it works just as is.

[Bretts]

I almost thought I better not touch it after your comments Antonio. Lucky Daiviet brought me back down to earth
You may be right about the size of the tree Daiviet. Even though I didn't have a larger one for the left that would suit I am unsure if this would fix it. Maybe as they all grow in size it will improve as Antonio suggests

forrest4.jpg

This shows the top of the main two trees coming left with their combined angle being almost vertical in line with the rest. Closing the angle slightly is also a possibility. The tree behind this would follow in relation. They would also come further forward in the pot.
The two trees on the left indicated would be swapped as the front tree is just too straight. The slight bends in the tree to take the front will better harmonise with the two main right trees. The very straight tree will improve the very vertical effect from the back ground.
With this I think there should be a couple more trees on the left with one possibly coupling with another tree to increase the illusion of size. I will also add some very small undergrowth scraggly trees and rocks later I hope to have this end up on white tray with a river bed through the middle. A penjing landscape.

I almost cut that root to the left of the two main trees Antonio. I was after the effect of this tree coming from under the main tree and with this root removed it will show this better. I have left there for now but will see in the future. I still want those two trees to have no gap at the bottom.
It should be plenty of fun to play with through the years
Edit: I usually find the wide flat trays handle the heat ok. I will add some spag moss if it is drying out too quick.

[anttal63]

i like ya thinking on all of it. the large is easy to control and hold at bay. to put the growth needed on the rest could be a struggle in that pot. dont let yaself down to earth to quickly, ride the future vision inside your head. it will get in time.

[MelaQuin]

To me it makes more sense if the alpha tree was inward a bit and not on the edge. I read it as a conflicting story. If the alpha tree dropped the seeds that sprouted the smaller ones, why is it not in the midst of them rather then on the edge? I think you will find that the guidelines suggest the alpha tree is off centre with the smaller ones around it. I like the idea of a larger tree but I think it is too large for the others and I am not taken with the really straight tree.

I've just done my first group and I can't say it is a superlative job so I'm not tossing brickbats but I feel there is some element of balance missing.
Suggestion... get a mirror and hold it in front of the group and look at the group in the mirror. A mirror is like a photograph in that making it two dimensional picks out adjustments that could be made that you can't see eye to eye. Works wonders.

You've done well for the first setup but I really think you need to do a bit more to make it a bit more harmonious.

[Pup]

Brett it is not an easy project, I used to think that just throwing trees in a tray and away you go. What I would suggest is do the 360 with it you will then find all that is wrong. The Alpha tree is fine the balance of the others should match.The is an excellent book by the late Saburo Kato called Forest, Rock Planting & Ezo Spruce Bonsai.ISBN0-9704393-3-7
What I have found with groups is as it matures you tend to change it. What remains constant is the Scalene triangle. One thing we were taught by our Sensei is the nebari in groups is not as important as in single trees. Also when trees are pruned to remember that branches are not to cross trunks low down. So if there are no branches needed on that side there is no need for roots.
That is one of the late John,Y Naka's idioms.
After all of this waffle I like where you are headed with this the Alpha tree should be dominant, like the traditional father figure supported by the smaller mother and so on down the family including grandpa and grandma. Pup

[Bretts]

Thanks for all the interesting comments. I thought it might be interesting to view the two references I used to create this forrest.
I have liked this Composition by Qingquan Zao which motivated me to buy his book Penjing Worlds of Wonderment that features the composition.

forest pic.jpg

I recommend this book to anyone as it is has some great examples and is dedicated to the creation of water and land penjing which Qingquan excells at.
I also used Peter Chans bonsai masterclass which has a great bunch of Forrest templates.

Forrest plan.jpg

It shows a wide variety of plans and it was great reference for ideas.
Although I do find the story of a composition very important I don't believe the truth should get in the way of a great story. I see a forrest as a picture frame around a a Forrest scene and there is little need to explain how the forrest came about. I don't think it necessary to expect that the largest tree created all the other trees. Although the alfa tree is often just off centre it is also very acceptable to have it further from the centre as in one of Peter's templates and also in Qingquan's composition. One of Peters templates even has the alfa tree at the very back. Yet this does not get me out of the size issue as a tree that is much bigger may not fit the story.
I think the fact that my eyes and Antonio's eye heads straight to the union of the two main trees as much more important at the moment though. This is the start of the story and the eyes will explore from here. Nature is never perfect yet an asymmetrical balance is a little lacking here. I do my best work in problem solving and since the start of the story has been found I am confident I can balance the story in time. I am unsure if the added smaller trees like in Qingquans composition would improve or worsen the effect of the largest tree. I am confident that I can add compress or in some way balance the left trees with it's size and movement. I hope this will improve the compact vertical movement that I was going for like Quingquan's composition.

[teejay]

Well done Bretts. I finished one recently also after much planning and I've been keen to produce a photo for criticism but my home computers stuffed so I can't copy my photos from the camera.

When I get it fixed I'll show, it has similarities to yours although less of a valley and more triangular.

I love trident forests.

[LLK]

Yes, trident forests are lovely to do. When you repot yours, Bretts, try to have the separation between the two groups of trees not bang in the middle. See also Zhao's setting. In your place, I would have shortened the taller trees by 30%. Also, the swollen base and different direction of the biggest tree make it too much the odd one out. In your place, again, I would take it out for now and airlayer it at the point where you have the tie. In 18 months' time you can then put it back.
Good luck!

Lisa