Apple seedlings

[Jabobo]

Hi everyone,

This is a continuation from a few posts in another thread (see below) where I was asking for some general advice and I thought that it was time that I started a new thread, so that it was easy to follow and I could ask for more specific advice as well.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16471

So, as the title suggests, I have some apple seedling that I germinated and I am basically looking to get some experience with tree development.

So I guess I should start from the beginning. I germinated 12 seeds from a couple of granny smith apples (malus domestica) by cold stratifying them in coir in the fridge for approximately a month. At this stage they were planted into seedling trays and left to grow until about 10cm in indirect sun. At this stage the tray was moved into the sun, although they seemed to be doing fine in the sun, the leave occasionally were looking a little sad. I believe it is because the seedling trays hold such a small volume of soil that it was either drenched or sitting in heaps of water, or they would dry out too much. So, after that I ended up putting them underneath a chair to shade them from midday sun.

The seedlings got to about 10-15cm tall and I decided to transplant them.


Because I had a few (12) I decided to see how cutting the tap root of the seedling affected their growth later on down the track. I assume that the slip potted seedling will initially do better as they haven’t been disturbed, whereas the tap root chopped plants will initially take some time to get momentum, but ultimately have better root structure and make better bonsai.



Here is a pic of the seedling that had the tap root chopped. I was actually quite surprised as most didn’t seem to have much of a tap root anyway.

At this stage, I have put all of the seedlings into either 120, 140mm pots and they are indirect sunlight for a couple of weeks to recover. No fertilizer at this stage, only seasol.

So here are group A (1-6) that were slip potted


And Group 2 (1-6), that had the tap root cut.


In the other tread we talked a little about wiring at this stage, or in the near future. I will wait for a couple of weeks for two reasons. First to give the plants time to recover, and secondly, to decide on what styles and size I want to try and create, as I imagine that this will dictate how they will need to be wired up.

Anyway, I apologise for the lengthy post, any feedback suggestions or thoughts are always welcome,

Cheers

Jacob

[treeman]

Jacob, I would use them as grafting stock for some nice crabapples. Don't waste years training them now as when they finally flower and set fruit, you will probably have an inferior bonsai with big apples or few flowers or whatever. They will be ready for grafting next August and its very easy.

[Jabobo]

Thanks for the suggestion treeman, they are more to learn from than anything else.

although i do have a question, would it not be better just to grow the crab apples from seeds, as wouldn't the graft pose more problems with scarring or with differences in bark colour/texture?

Cheers

[treeman]

There should be no problem with graft scarring etc. if you graft down low. (just above the roots) Crabs from seed take an average of 10 years to flower and then you never know what you end up with. Some species come true to type but most hybrids don't. I try to use the seeds from the fruit of the tree I want to graft as the stock to avoid any possible incompatibility problem which you might have with asian crab on European apple for example. After grafting, plant into the ground and it will fatten up very quickly.

[Jabobo]

Hey Treeman,

Thanks for the info, some more questions though.

Do you have a link to grafting that low/how it is done. I have no experience and I am definitely a visual learner. Also what material needs to be grafted onto the rootstock? What is the relationship that allows the grafted tree to produce flowers earlier once grafted?

Unfortunately, I do not have much soil to plant anything out into the ground, but I work with what I have lol


I guess though, for now since the option for grafting is to cut back to the roots anyway, that I will continue on with the original plan to wire up the trees and get some experience with that sort of thing.

Cheers

Jacob

[shibui]

What is the relationship that allows the grafted tree to produce flowers earlier once grafted?

Seedlings are juvenile plants. It takes time to mature to the stage where it can reproduce - same as most organisms. When we graft we can put already mature wood from another plant on to the rootstock. That part of the tree is already mature and will continue to flower as it did on the old tree.

Also what material needs to be grafted onto the rootstock?

It is usual to graft related plants together. You have apple seedlings so you'll need to graft apples on to them but it can be any sort of apple - crab apple (any sort), fruiting apples, etc.

I'll see whether I can find some grafting notes and pics.

[Jabobo]

Hey Shibui,

Sorry I wasn't clearer. When I asked about the type of material... I was in fact asking about the the age of the donor crab apple, so how old, how thick etc. You still answered about the age though so thanks. But do you graft new growth from the donor tree, or something that has hardened off.

Also, the question about the graft affect on flowering, I guess I meant to ask for info about plant hormones or what ever it is that tells the tree that it is mature enough to flower.

I am still not sure how you would graft and not get the scar. so if anyone could shed some light on that, that would be great.

Cheers

Jacob