Adding movement to new maples and elms

[bonborn]

Yesterday i picked up these seedlings. I have been looking at them since yesterday trying to visualise what i will do with them or how i will add movement to the plant. I feel the plants are really straight. I will be preparing the garden this week to place them straight in the garden to thicken up. Should i wire them before, or should i cut them (if so where). Some help would be really appreciated.


I am concerned about this plant the most. It is just so straight and the bottom half looks kinda dormant. If i cut it back, you reckon it will grow branches.









This one here i am looking at focusing on the roots mainly. I want to extend the roots and eventually put it on a rock. Any other ideas?



http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff3 ... C04212.jpg [/IMG]







My inspiration for the above pic is the picture below. Would love to head this way.




I would appreciate any guidance on any of the plants above.

[bonborn]

Oops looks like photos didn't upload. Reading the forum for on how to post pictures

[Andrew F]

R/hand side of photobucket - direct link

[img]direct%20link.jpg[/img]

Voila! HTH.

[Jason]

What I do, and have seen others post about it too, is when you plant these into larger pots to grow them, is put a stake in the pot too, and just wrap the stem of the tree around the stake gently. That way it'll develop some nice movement, and you don't need to worry about wiring

I'll try and find the post that has some nice instructions on how to do this and post it here for you

Edit: Sorry, I can't find the post

[bonborn]

This is the inspiration for the plant in the 5th image. .

[GavinG]

Cut back to a bud, plant it in the ground at an angle. If you are serious about getting good strength in the trunk, it will take 5-10 years - if you cut once a year, and a new angle develops each year, after some years you have an interesting, well-tapered and well-shaped trunk. Don't forget to pout some natives in at the same time. Best of luck,

Gavin

[bonborn]

Cut back to a bud, plant it in the ground at an angle. If you are serious about getting good strength in the trunk, it will take 5-10 years - if you cut once a year, and a new angle develops each year, after some years you have an interesting, well-tapered and well-shaped trunk. Don't forget to pout some natives in at the same time. Best of luck,

Gavin

Thanks for the response Gavin. So i need to cut it back? I thought the plant needs unrestricted growth. No cutting etc in ground.

[lackhand]

Cut back to a bud, plant it in the ground at an angle. If you are serious about getting good strength in the trunk, it will take 5-10 years - if you cut once a year, and a new angle develops each year, after some years you have an interesting, well-tapered and well-shaped trunk. Don't forget to pout some natives in at the same time. Best of luck,

Gavin

Thanks for the response Gavin. So i need to cut it back? I thought the plant needs unrestricted growth. No cutting etc in ground.

The growth will give you the girth in the trunk, but you don't want just a straight trunk all the same diameter either. You cut back each year so that you get taper as well as girth. This also helps keep the lower branches growing which is important.

Sacrifice branches are another way to add to trunk girth. Keep a low one and just let it go crazy to keep the base fattening nicely.

[shibui]

I can't tell if the captions belong to the picture above or below
Trident maples (and figs) make the best root over rock bonsai. Chinese elm and liquidamber are ok but do not develop the great roots that tridents do. I put my trees on rocks at 1 year old. Older than that and the roots get stiff and it is hard to get them to follow the rock contours properly. My method produces good results and it does not matter if the roots are long enough to reach the bottom of the rock. http://shibuibonsai.com.au/growing-root ... ck-bonsai/

The 'kinda dormant one' is either a trident maple or liquidamber. Both will shoot prolific buds when you cut it back so no need to worry.

GavinG and Lackhand are correct in saying that taper (and also nebari) are just as important as trunk thickness so pruning is important while you are growing plants on in the ground ( so is root pruning) but you only need to prune once or twice each year. The rest of the time let them grow.

[bonborn]

I can't tell if the captions belong to the picture above or below
Trident maples (and figs) make the best root over rock bonsai. Chinese elm and liquidamber are ok but do not develop the great roots that tridents do. I put my trees on rocks at 1 year old. Older than that and the roots get stiff and it is hard to get them to follow the rock contours properly. My method produces good results and it does not matter if the roots are long enough to reach the bottom of the rock. http://shibuibonsai.com.au/growing-root ... ck-bonsai/

The 'kinda dormant one' is either a trident maple or liquidamber. Both will shoot prolific buds when you cut it back so no need to worry.

GavinG and Lackhand are correct in saying that taper (and also nebari) are just as important as trunk thickness so pruning is important while you are growing plants on in the ground ( so is root pruning) but you only need to prune once or twice each year. The rest of the time let them grow.

Root over rock is liquidamber and the dormant one is trident maple. Maybe i'll work with figs and do the root over rock. That's a little further away down the list. Need to still learn to do the simple stuff. Information on the link you provided was really good and easy to follow.

I will definitely be following the suggestions of others regarding the trimming.

[Alan Peck]

Hi bonborn,
Good seedlings for first starting out, like most beginers want to buy, but it is relavent to your age. In a few years you'll know why !!
Firstly, please join a club. Sydney has lots of addvisers and experianced members to help you with your choices. Second, buy 1 piece of mature stock from a bonsai nursery rather than 6 seedlings.You will get far quicker results or even better, collect mature trees that are in the ground now and have been for 10 or so years. If you only collect 2 a year then in 5 years you will have 10 trees that you will be learning on all the time. Some stock I have collected started out 4 metres in height before 'resquing'. Collecting from the ground has methods that also need to be learnt for success.
Larger stronger trees will recover quicker than material as thin as just your finger.
There's a lot to learn even about putting them in the ground for 5 years and waiting for your plans. Put them onto a plate with the roots faned out under ground or something similar so the roots can spread and run sideways, the further they run and the more the top grows the better the nebari and the faster the trunk will expand. One of the lower branches will eventually end up being your new top down the track. Plant at an angle and let the tree just grow for the first 3 years or so. You should have by then lots of branches and more importantly more choices for your design options. A new top and branches can more easily be grown from a stronger mature tree. You should also by then be able to airlayer branches you plan to remove, that means more trees for you. It goes without saying that food and water on a regular basis will increase growth rate.

Good luck, and try not to be too impatiant. We were all there at your stage ourselves once upon a time.