Old Trident Maple needs a fresh set of eyes

[Andrew Legg]

Hi all,

I have a friend in my bonsai club here who is getting on a bit, and struggles to maintain his trees and who in his own words has not a hint of artistic ability in his body! LOL He has asked me to redesign or relook at two of his many trees. The first I want to post up here is this trident maple that is from Yamadori stock of about 20 to 25 years ago. The trunk has a lot of character to me, particularly the lower part, but unfortunately the tree has been grown to look like a pine tree.

P1010293.JPG

So, my main question is whether any of you fellas or lassies can tell me whether or not I can move those large primary branches upwards or not. I with considering sawing 2/3 through the branches from above and then slowly bending them upwards with a pull wire. I'm just not sure whether they will break or or.

Of course, any other suggestions are more than welcome.

Cheers,

Andrew

[alpineart]

Hi Andrew , mate a new set of branches are in order . I would remove all the lower 6 branches back the 5mm stubs and hope it will shoot from there leaving the upper section until next season or hooking in and going all out removing all the thicker out of place branches . If it doesn't back bud lower down , it will need a bigger higher canopy which no doubt it could be built in a season or two far superior to what is there now . No easy fix but in time it would be worth it .

The trunk line in the lower 2/3 of the tree has great character and I wouldn't conceal it with branches , opting for a taller wider canopy , but that too will take time .I have a quite a few dozen old yamadori Trident Maples here and 1 1/2 season's on , they are taking shape after completely removing all branches and shoots back to naked trunks , due for their first wiring very soon .

Then again I'm quite tough on my own stock .

Cheers Alpineart

[Andrew Legg]

Thanks Alpine,

I'll give the guy the option, but I think that'll take quite some convincing even though I think it is the correct approach. Curiosity killed the cat . . . . why would you cut to stubs and not all off?

Cheers,

Andrew

[alpineart]

Hi Andrew , mate if you remove all the branch back to the trunk line you remove almost all chances of any unseen dormant buds breaking out .The remaining stub can be trimmed back after a shoot in the correct place around the stub has grown . Basically alleviating the stub removes the chances of a bud growing from that point .

Some new shoots wont appear for 2 seasons but they are there leave 2-3 shoots until you are sure of the right placement then rub the rest off .If it was mine i would strip it bare apart from the thin new shoots , but that's only my take on this pic .I can see a couple of shoot coming from the bottom , they are dormant buds and Trident's have plenty that we cant see .

Removing it from the pot and giving it some root run for a season will stimulate budding and going on the scars lower down there has been many shoots over time and recently . There will be plenty of unseen nodes in there that could be better utilized than the current branches .

Good luck with it . Cheers Alpine

[Guy]

the bulging trunk below the first branches looks a real problem----and a long term project for the bottom trunk area--my first impression --bar branches cause problems with the trunk--I would remove the first left branch and air layer below the first right branch using the trunk bulge to have taper for the upper tree( which could be tilted to the left and designed as a twin trunk)---the remaining lower trunk I'm sure would reshoot and be useful in the future

[Bonsaitrees (Craig)]

Andrew, would it be possible to change the "front" and have the trunk slanting to the right slightly, then think about a branch rework ?

P1010293.JPG

[Viky Petermann]

Hi Andrew,
Is it possible to get photos from all around the tree?
The re-design choices from from the angle of the photo you posted are not too many particularly if your friend wants to keep most of the height of his tree and most of the branches!
The best feature of the tree is the mature bark. The trunk has movement and enough taper for 2/3 rds of the way.
Problems from this angle:
Poor roots (grafting more roots will improve them).
Scars and pigeon breast which may be made a feature of by creating exciting deadwood with deeper holes (Uros).
Apex too straight, coarse and boring, re-growing it would be the best option and only a 2 or 3 year project( I would make the tree all together shorter by a 1/3rd so as to bring out the strength of the trunk).
Someone suggested air-layering the apex at an angle to make a twin trunk: I LOVE THAT IDEA! or just a single trunk Mame! This would make it easier for your friend to accept a shorter tree (you know, the 2 for the price of 1 sales pitch!)
The branches of this tree are in my opinion its worst feature as they are ugly, too straight, cylindrical, with no character and in no way reflecting 20 or 25 years of growth. To give them any sort of character in keeping with the trunk I would shorten them leaving only the first 10/20% and re grow them giving them movement (outwards and upwards NOT STRAIGHT OUT TO THE SIDES!) and taper and develop the ramification creating an all together natural image. If you just cut a wedge and move them upwards you will not solve the problem, (just move it's position!)
I hope you can persuade your friend to make some serious changes to this tree!
Viky X

[Scott Roxburgh]

I agree with Alpine 100%, cut back to stubs and restart the branches. Just make sure that the tree is healthy enough to do this work.

As others have said, there seems to be some reverse taper but maybe another side for a front may hide this? Can you get anymore pics?

I think bending is a bad idea, the age of the trunk deserves more.

Check out the thread below for inspiration:
viewtopic.php?f=129&t=7518

[Brian]

It would make a superb tree if you could remove both bar branches and air layer it from that part of the trunk.

[GavinG]

It looks to me as if the best movement in the trunk is fore-and-aft - if the owner will consider removing all the branches, you could rotate the trunk all around and at all angles, to select the best, then build the branches to suit. There's a lot of character in the trunk, maybe a sideways lean might make it more dynamic. Well worth working on, for sure. Best of luck,

Gavin

[Andrew Legg]

Interesting responses all - thanks. I'll take a few more pics and post them today.

Cheers,

Andrew

[Neli]

Use Urushibata's technique to shift the lowest left branch Up.

[Scott Roxburgh]

Use Urushibata's technique to shift the lowest left branch Up.

I assume you mean Ebihara?
http://bonsaitonight.com/2009/07/29/ebihara-technique/

I don't think that any of these branches warrant the use of this technique...not sure that I could get the technique to work either.

There appears to already be a shoot/branch on the left in the perfect position, let that grow out for the season and then cut back. Rinse, repeat.

[Neli]

He saw it in Ebihara's garden but it is Urushibata's technique.
You can do it...if you want to.

[shibui]

I agree with Scott. None of those branches are worth moving. All look like they were developed in a hurry with little pruning to produce movement and taper and not much ramification either. My guess is they were made from shoots with long internodes and will not bud back really well even when pruned hard (see lower left branch)

Far better in the long run to grow new branches a bit more slowly with both ramification and taper.

In the pics the trunk seems to come toward the front and then move away at the top. I reckon there must be a better front somewhere but more pics from different angles will help determine that.