What is this germinating?

shibui · Post by **shibui** » December 15th, 2013, 9:24 pm

This has just come up in one of my seed pots. Does anyone know what it is?

P1080067.JPG

MoGanic · Post by **MoGanic** » December 15th, 2013, 10:20 pm

It looks like a pine, but I wouldn't know the species. I'd guess radiata though?? Am I close??

longd_au · Post by **longd_au** » December 15th, 2013, 10:42 pm

I think this should be a black pine. I find radiata seedlings are bigger and longer needles.

Rolf · Post by **Rolf** » December 16th, 2013, 12:36 am

May be a white pine seedling!!??

Drac0 · Post by **Drac0** » December 16th, 2013, 11:27 am

Don't think it's a black pine, the seed looks wrong & all mine that have germinated lately seem to have far fewer leaves.

Then again, what do I know....

lackhand · Post by **lackhand** » December 16th, 2013, 11:58 am

Given all the JBP Neil grows every year, I doubt he would be asking if that's what it was.

treeman · Post by **treeman** » December 16th, 2013, 6:36 pm

Looks like Cedrus to me...

shibui · Post by **shibui** » December 16th, 2013, 10:19 pm

Well done Rolfster.
The large seed case gives the clue.
I posted this because I think I have learned something about germinating white pine seed.

The seeds were collected at Hobart Botanic Gardens last summer. Jow has said he collected some too but none germinated which started me worrying a bit. Before planting I opened a selection of seeds to check they were viable. About 1/2 had healthy embryos so I sowed them as normal. All the other pines came up long ago but no white pines

A couple of weeks ago I got sick of waiting and dug them up and opened some more. the good ones still had healthy embryos but had not germinated

It occurred to me that the seeds are large and hard and maybe the reason for no germination is that they had not absorbed water so I clipped the corner off each seed and replanted the ones with good embryos. A couple of weeks later and they are starting to germinate.

Looks to me that white pine might need some pretreatment to allow moisture into the seeed so it can germinate. Has anyone else found this?

Jow · Post by **Jow** » December 17th, 2013, 8:13 am

Great idea Neil! Next time I get my hands on some seed I will definitely give this a go.

Joe.

Rolf · Post by **Rolf** » December 17th, 2013, 8:20 am

shibui wrote:Well done Rolfster.
The large seed case gives the clue.
I posted this because I think I have learned something about germinating white pine seed.

The seeds were collected at Hobart Botanic Gardens last summer. Jow has said he collected some too but none germinated which started me worrying a bit. Before planting I opened a selection of seeds to check they were viable. About 1/2 had healthy embryos so I sowed them as normal. All the other pines came up long ago but no white pines
A couple of weeks ago I got sick of waiting and dug them up and opened some more. the good ones still had healthy embryos but had not germinated
It occurred to me that the seeds are large and hard and maybe the reason for no germination is that they had not absorbed water so I clipped the corner off each seed and replanted the ones with good embryos. A couple of weeks later and they are starting to germinate.

Looks to me that white pine might need some pretreatment to allow moisture into the seeed so it can germinate. Has anyone else found this?

Hi shibui,
Thanks mate

I was lucky to get some white pines growing from seed in the 1990's, unfortunately none made it. I guess not enough experience probably and wrong climate here in Perth WA!

And yes I was soaking the seeds for a week or two before planting, not necessary for my black pine seeds!!

I'm much more successful with my black pines!!! Lovem

Cheers Rolf

treeman · Post by **treeman** » December 17th, 2013, 12:21 pm

shibui wrote:Well done Rolfster.
The large seed case gives the clue.
I posted this because I think I have learned something about germinating white pine seed.

The seeds were collected at Hobart Botanic Gardens last summer. Jow has said he collected some too but none germinated which started me worrying a bit. Before planting I opened a selection of seeds to check they were viable. About 1/2 had healthy embryos so I sowed them as normal. All the other pines came up long ago but no white pines
A couple of weeks ago I got sick of waiting and dug them up and opened some more. the good ones still had healthy embryos but had not germinated
It occurred to me that the seeds are large and hard and maybe the reason for no germination is that they had not absorbed water so I clipped the corner off each seed and replanted the ones with good embryos. A couple of weeks later and they are starting to germinate.

Looks to me that white pine might need some pretreatment to allow moisture into the seeed so it can germinate. Has anyone else found this?

Hi Shibui,
Yes they definitly germinate better with 3 months cold stratification. You will need patience though. I sowed some in 2000 and they still have not much to offer!

shibui · Post by **shibui** » December 17th, 2013, 8:27 pm

I agree that these do not appear to like our climate. i tried years ago but they got smaller each year until they had all died so gave up. i do not think they like the heat in summer.
However i cannot pass up the opportunity to try to germinate seed so whenever its available I'm ready, even if i do not need any more of them, whatever they are

Yes they definitly germinate better with 3 months cold stratification.

That had crossed my mind Treeman. I was blaming lack of cold for them not germinating so I was quite surprised that they responder to cutting the seed coat. It is probable that the hard seed coat is the inhibiting factor and it somehow cracks when subjected to enough cold so the seed can germinate the following spring. I should try scarifying some seed to see whether just scratching the coating would be enough or does it have to be cut right through?

alpineart · Post by **alpineart** » December 18th, 2013, 6:30 am

Hi Shibui , mate i did a topic here about 12 months ago on "Japanese White Pine seedlings" . I soaked them for 72 hours then planted them out . Within a couple of weeks they began to strike and are still popping up a mix of Ibocan and Fukuzumi.

Unfortunately most have died but that is due to overwatering and lack of care on my behalf . Only 1 or the original has survived 2 stuck in late winter and 2 more over the last week have sprouted , still not getting the care they need .

I will take a pic and update the topic today .

Cheers Alpine .

treeman · Post by **treeman** » December 18th, 2013, 4:06 pm

shibui wrote:
I should try scarifying some seed to see whether just scratching the coating would be enough or does it have to be cut right through?

Scarifing is a bit of a pain and you may introduce disease into the seed before its ready to germinate. (thats what I found anyway). I found putting them in moist vermiculite in a glass jar with some holes and if the fridge over winter best. They germinate very evenly that way. Once planted, it also helps to inocculate with mycorrhiza too. They seem to do very poorly without it.

AusBonsai