Tips and Advice for seedlings

[Osmosis]

Hi All, I am after some tips, advice and suggestions on future direction for some seedlings that I have started.

I recently purchased some seedlings from good old ebay. I have sown 15 Ulmus Parvifolia, 15 Cryptomeria Japonica, 5 Pinus Densiflora and 6 Acer Buergerianum into standard potting mix in a mini Yates 48 cell hothouse. I am hoping they will strike and harden a little before the onset of our lovely Tasmanian winter.

My grand plan consists of:
A couple of group plantings, root over rock, and the remainder as single bonsai. As to which for which I have not decided on yet…….
Spring time will get out of hothouse and into pots etc.
I am planning on buying one of the large half wine barrels from the big green shed and putting some caster wheels on the base (wheel out into the rain when it does), extra drainage holes and planting some of the seedlings in there (can then remain in my undercover area in the sun on the edge so I can admire as they develop).
I am going to plant some seedlings beside the garden shed in a little garden I have there. This garden has had horse manure tossed through in the last 3 months but I want to make sure that the area drains better now as it used to be very clay based and would not drain properly for days on end.
I would also plant some in pots as well.

I have a few questions I would like advice and tips on:
1: If I put 2-3 seedlings in so they are touching each other with the roots evenly spaced, will this then help develop a multiple trunk?
2: Should I put a paver a couple of inches beneath the surface before planting in the open ground?
3: Any ill effects from the wine barrel?
4: Would I be better to transplant straight into a shallow pot or use deeper pots to start with?

This is my first set of seedlings that I have attempted and I am still quite new to Bonsai on the whole.

Please feel free to throw suggestions my way. I am always open to different ideas and perspectives.

Cheers.

[dansai]

Hi Osmosis,

In regards to your questions some quick notes while getting kids ready for bed......

1. The multi trunk you need to be careful not to plant them too close together. If they start to fuse when very young, then as they develop the junction will travel up the trunks and be too high from the soil line to look effective. May be better to develop the trees for a year or so then plant them close together to form a multi trunk. Heres a link to a topic where someone comments on it. viewtopic.php?f=129&t=16789&hilit=twin+trunk#p175701

2. Paver, tile, CD, anything is a good idea. Also check out this topic for some great ideas. viewtopic.php?t=14986#p153830

3. Probably. Especially with seedlings. It would be better to get the seedlings growing strongly and more advanced before planting in a pot of that size. Potting mix without roots actively growing through it can become stale, stagnant and poisonous to roots if it has organics in it, or be a place for worms, curl grubs or other pests. A potting mix based on inorganics may work but these need regular applications of fertilisers for tree health and again you would want a good active root system to make the most of any frets you apply.

4. Bigger pots = faster growth. So, yes. Plant in bigger pots to develop your trunks and root systems. Then start on you're branches and refining of your roots. Then Bonsai pots for the final stages of development.

[shibui]

The species that you mention do not thicken quite as quickly as figs. I have a few multi trunk tridents started as seedlings planted close together and they are good after 10+ years. Not all groups planted this way unite successfully. Be prepared for some that don't work and some that do. I think it will depend on the size you want to grow them to - smaller bonsai will require thinner trunks and will thicken less than the ones you grow to a large size.

I know some plant trees with a tile or something under the roots to get a flat base. In my experience this does not always work as well as you would hope. Just folding the roots flat on a plate can lead to some lower roots dominating and pushing others upward. I find that simply pruning properly to get a flat radial root system in the first year or 2 and continuing to root prune fearlessly as they develop works as good or better. The roots of tridents I planted on CDs just crushed the Cd as if it was not there so no affect from something as light as a CD. I now thread seedlings through holes drilled in aluminium or stainless sheet and plant so the sheet is around 2 cm below the surface. As the seedling thickens the holes cut off circulation but new roots issue just above the plate and roots grow out across the sheet to give a more reliable flat root system. In addition callus forms at the new base and makes the base of the tree thicken even more.

If you use a good potting mix in your barrel there should be no problem with growing your seedlings in it. You will need to monitor watering carefully at the start to avoid problems. Also feed regularly to get the best growth.

There is no problem with using deeper pots as long as you are prepared to prune roots fearlessly and properly to encourage a radial root system. Larger pots are easier to manage (water, etc) and trees in them will generally develop faster than those in smaller or shallower ones.

[Osmosis]

Thanks for the tips and advice dansai and shibui.

The planting in a colander certainly looks interesting. I will definitely give it a go with the ground planted ones so I can avoid disturbing the rootball in the first couple of years and I can move them if required if the ground becomes too water logged.
Will let the seedlings develop for a year before attempting to fuse together for multi trunk. I didn't know that if you fuse too early then it travels up above the soil line. Cheers.

Any suggestions of a good potting mix to plant into in the wine barrel (if I go down that track; may reduce the size I was thinking of now)?
Will also use the potting mix to plant into pots as well. Would it be worthwhile or a waste to mix through some pre mixed (Richgro/Osmocote) Bonsai Potting mix as well?

[Aquaman]

I have started using "squat pots", sometimes called "orchid pots" for all my seedlings. They are not as deep as regular pots. I use them with a well draining bonsai mix and so far I am really impressed with the results.

I'll be repotting most of my seedlings into squat pots at the end of winter.

Here's where I bought mine:
http://stores.ebay.com.au/Grand-Pa-Rons ... 34.c0.m322

Postage can be expensive if you only buy a few pots, so worth doing a big order. I am sure they are also available in some garden centres, but I haven't found them yet.

As well as the stuff mentioned above you might also want to consider growing some under mesh. This is quite popular with some growers in Japan and produces some really interesting trees. You just cover the seedlings in some fine mesh and weigh it down with some bricks or something similar. To start with the mesh should be just above the height of the seedlings. As the tree grows it is trapped under the mesh and is forced to grow into weird twisted shapes. Just make sure they are in full sun because the mesh creates shade.

My advice with seedlings is don't put all your eggs in one basket. Do lots of different things with them and see what works. You might be surprised.

Good luck with whatever you decide.