Trident new front??

[shibui]

OK. Just got a few photos before the light faded. Let me know how you think it looks this way.

trident tilted.JPG

And here are the roots uncovered.

trident tilted roots.JPG

Note the root circling the rock on the right. It has quite a few lateral roots coming from it so should produce good nebari from there in time.

[dansai]

I think Jows virt had it tilted more and I think it could do with more lean. But it would mean the right hand branches would need to be pulled down more and I feel the top would have to be chopped just above the second cluster of branches removing the straight section and rebuild a bit more trunk grown with movement and a apex from there.

I think in your hands this tree has a chance to becoming a much better tree and thank you for sharing it with us.

[Scott Roxburgh]

Looks good Neil, but that straight bit needs to go.

shibui trident chop.jpg

[Shannon]

Nice little tree Shibui. I agree with Scott reduction of the apex will improve the tree greatly and give it more realistic taper.

Regards
Shan.

[shibui]

Thanks everyone for the input with this one.

I think Jows virt had it tilted more and I think it could do with more lean

Only repotting time will see how far this one can be tilted. The large root on the right might be able to be shown a little more but can't come right out of the ground and it will remain to be seen if the roots on the left can be buried a little more and still look good.

Looks good Neil, but that straight bit needs to go.

Absolutely understood Scott and I have already mentioned shortening the top earlier in the thread. Your line for reduction is where I was also looking at. Practically though the branches on this tree are quite solid. i doubt that I can move any of them. The one you have left at the top of the tree has some potential to supply a new apex but will leave an odd bend toward the front if it has to be used as the basis of a new apex. I'm planning to cut it back where you have indicated and hoping for some new shoots in positions that will form a more seamless transition to a new apex.

I agree with Scott reduction of the apex will improve the tree greatly and give it more realistic taper.

I think that everyone should note that trunks like this are the product of trying to grow bonsai too quickly. I have used a shoot to grow the entire length of that top section in 1 go. Even when you wire a shoot to give movement there is very little taper because the whole lot grew at the same rate. Lots of my earlier trees have this problem in either trunks or branches or both. I am only now getting the courage to prune hard and try to re grow the faulty sections. Believe me it takes some time to convince yourself to remove what has taken 10 or 15 years to achieve.

[harvards_lone]

take an air layer from that red line?

[shibui]

take an air layer from that red line?

Not worth the time That section may be old but has few other good characteristics for bonsai. I could grow a far better one in just a couple of years and the sooner that top is removed the quicker the new top can be made and healed.

[bodhidharma]

. I am only now getting the courage to prune hard and try to re grow the faulty sections. Believe me it takes some time to convince yourself to remove what has taken 10 or 15 years to achieve.

And there is a whole lot of truth right there. It is very difficult indeed to start again especially when we are not as young as we used to be and you know it will probably take another five or so years to see the result.

[Shannon]

[/quote]I think that everyone should note that trunks like this are the product of trying to grow bonsai too quickly. I have used a shoot to grow the entire length of that top section in 1 go. Even when you wire a shoot to give movement there is very little taper because the whole lot grew at the same rate. Lots of my earlier trees have this problem in either trunks or branches or both. I am only now getting the courage to prune hard and try to re grow the faulty sections. Believe me it takes some time to convince yourself to remove what has taken 10 or 15 years to achieve.[/quote]


Shibui I don't understand mate you say it's a product of growing to quickly but you need courage to cut off what's taken 10-15 years?If that's quick I'd hate to see slow mate.

You can still achieve gradual taper when growing trunklines or apex fast. The careful use of sacrifice branching in the area that you need more girth will help you out.

Regards
Shannon

[shibui]

Shibui I don't understand mate you say it's a product of growing to quickly but you need courage to cut off what's taken 10-15 years?If that's quick I'd hate to see slow mate.

I grew the apex to its full length in 1 year then spent the next 5 or 10 years refining it - growing branches, thickening it up, etc without really noticing that the top part of the tree did not have decent taper. I now try to grow replacements by grow and cut over several years. The results are far better.

You can still achieve gradual taper when growing trunklines or apex fast. The careful use of sacrifice branching in the area that you need more girth will help you out.

I note the use of the word 'careful' Shannon. In many cases the results have been less than satisfactory - inverse taper, scars, etc. I'm happy if you can make it work but I get better results from grow and cut.

[kcpoole]

I don't understand mate you say it's a product of growing to quickly but you need courage to cut off what's taken 10-15 years?If that's quick I'd hate to see slow mate.

I grew the apex to its full length in 1 year then spent the next 5 or 10 years refining it - growing branches, thickening it up, etc without really noticing that the top part of the tree did not have decent taper. I now try to grow replacements by grow and cut over several years. The results are far better.

You can still achieve gradual taper when growing trunklines or apex fast. The careful use of sacrifice branching in the area that you need more girth will help you out.

I note the use of the word 'careful' Shannon. In many cases the results have been less than satisfactory - inverse taper, scars, etc. I'm happy if you can make it work but I get better results from grow and cut.

A Very interesting discussion of the finer points to grow taper and a nice trunk.
A long term experiment on using both methods in the same environment would be an excellent project.

Anyone up for it

Ken

[shibui]

Gritted teeth and took a branch cutter to the top of this tree today.

trident pruning 1.JPG

trident pruning 3.JPG

trident pruning 4.JPG

[Boics]

Already looks better and stronger.

Thanks Shibui. I hope one day to be in the position that I too can make these tough decisions for a better future.

[kcpoole]

Nice chop Neil
As boics says, looks better already.

Ken

[Scott Roxburgh]

Perfect chop! that a new bud pops just where you need it!

It looks 100 times better already!