Japanese Black Pine longitudinal study; Collaborators needed

[bamboos]

Hi Neli
It sounds to me like you are the equivalent of Tamborine mountain which is inland from the Gold Coast .The elevation is about 1100 m and is about 5c cooler than the Coast. The temp is very similar but the rainfall is much higher( Jan last year had 1,000 mm of rainfall)
I think you might have your summer and winter temps reversed.
Steve

[Neli]

almost the same as Zambia...except that our annual average temperature is 3 degrees lower...but the average monthly temperatures are almost the same. The only difference is we dont have rain in winter...but the monthly temperatures are +- 1C difference. Our seasons are exactly the same as yours.

climate zambia.JPG

tambourine isl.JPG

tambourine island.JPG

[Grant Bowie]

Hi all,

I have chosen areas in Australia that have high population levels and bonsai enthusiasts. Australia has nearly all the climatic zones of the world but few people spread over a huge continent.

We have one member in the Canberra group that lives in the Snowy Mountains but he is probably the only or one of the few bonsai people in Australia that gets it that cold.He is welcome to participate on the website and I will note any info that comes in from the many other possible areas if they post.

Re fertilisers; I will not be asking people to completely over-ride their usual routines and types of fertiliser. I am more interested in the standard times that things happen in their part of the world and then ask them to do a few variations and observations.

If however they wish to follow what I am using in Canberra it is Powerfeed and Seasol together I also have Osmocote in the mix but that is soon exhausted and not necessarily replaced till next re pot. Cakes of fertiliser or other liquids are acceptable; I don't recommend the use of strong chemical ferts.

Still nothing from Tassie or Blue Mountains yet.

Grant

[Grant Bowie]

Hi all,

I would like to get this trial/study/experiment going soon even though I do not have some participants in Tasmania, Blue Mountains or some other places.

So rather than lock in and lock out various areas I will post all the steps of the study in this thread so that others may choose to join or follow the study and contribute later. Those who have already put their hands up; your help is most appreciated and I will work closely with you both on line and off line.

So FIRST STEP.

Select 2 Japanese Black Pines from your collection. Put them side by side in the best position in your area for going into winter. Full sun if possible or limited shade. Label one PINE 1 and label the other PINE 2. Photograph them to remind you in 2 years time what they were like when we started.

The trees should preferably be very similar in vigour, colour, stage of ramification, state of repot or not, should be seedling or cutting grown and not a grafted variety(Yatsabusa, Mikawa, Kotobuki or Nishiki). Type of potting mix is irrelevant to the study as we are comparing growth differences between your trees.

Start a regular fertilising regime for PINE 1. You can use liquid feeds or fertiliser cakes as you normally do. I would prefer you to use a moderate strength fertiliser; say 12 to 18 N in NPK terms. A weak fertiliser like Maxicrop is not enough, a strong chemical fertiliser like Aquasol should not be used. Chook Poo Pellets?

Please start fertilising PINE 1 from around 1st June and fertilise every 2 weeks or so. It is easier to remember if you fertilise every second Monday or Friday or whatever. After one month I will ask you to inspect the tree and observe any differences that may be visible.

Fertilising over winter may; green the tree up in warmer areas, allow less Winter Colour in really cold areas, increase vigour, cause noticable bud swelling, increase pest and disease resistance in the long term etc. but may take time to become evident.

If it makes no difference anywhere in Australia then that is also a result as far as a study is concerned.

PINE 2 will be fertilised from the start of spring; whatever you consider that is.

SECOND STEP will be the timing of fertiliser withdrawal and full candle removal in early summer for your area. Going by the development of the new spring candles we will allow the candles to grow, fill out and harden off. (If hardening off is too slow in Tasmania we may choose to remove the spring candles before they are fully hardened off.) I will be guided by those of you in Cairns as to what to do and when but would like to push the boundaries where possible.

On a final note; I am not looking to over-ride your standard practices but would like to explore other possibilities as well. We will initially aim for a 2 year project finishing May 2016.

Grant

[kcpoole]

Would you like us to post the 2 trees here when we start?

Ken

[Grant Bowie]

Would you like us to post the 2 trees here when we start?

Ken

Can do but not critical; I will post my 2 trees.

Grant

[Neli]

I am going to take pictures of similar pines so You chose which ones to use...Some are decandled late this year (2 weeks ago) some are not...so perhaps I decandle both that will be used, so They are in the same state?
All my pines are under 30% shade cloth...and shohin or mame...

[Grant Bowie]

IMG_6700.jpg

IMG_6699.jpg

OK,

Here are my 2 Japanese black pines; and I have in the background a spare smaller couple of pines just in case.

IMG_6701.jpg

IMG_6702.jpg

IMG_6703.jpg

I will start fertilising the no 1 trees soon and then observe over winter and then record the significant dates when buds start to swell, elongate, fill out and harden off for both no 1 and no 2 trees. (The needles have hardened off when they change from pale green to dark green, the needles do not pull out easily from the sheath and the needle points are sharp/prickly and firm).

I will also observe colour and vigour; and record the dates when everything is happening.

The trees above are of course from the 32 JBP I purchased and repotted earlier in the year. I do all repotting of conifers now in autumn; March from preference.

Grant

[kez]

I have 4 pines which I am tossing up between, for reasons I will outline below

Pine A

This is perhaps the best pine I have for this study, it has only been thinned out thus far this year, and is quite strong (although young) and has all buds that set in late summer still intact

IMG_1923 (800x533).jpg

Pine B
This pine is in the same stage of development and condition at this point in time, with much the same work being done this year but has had a bit of an attack from spider mites so is perhaps not as strong as it could be (please forgive the design, its a bit of a mess at the moment)

IMG_1929 (800x533).jpg

Pine C

This tree is probably the one I would rather use as my second tree along with pine A but it has had a lot more work done this summer with growth being reduced to a few needles in Jan, it has responded with much back budding but is not as strong as the other 2 at the moment

IMG_1924 (800x533).jpg

Pine D

This pine is probably the pine I wish to use least as I will be doing some work on this with Grant next week, and I was planning on following the direction of Leong's pine book with this one and moving straight onto needle reduction as it is a much more advanced tree, but in terms of it's current situation it is most similar to pine A in terms of vigour and bud development at present so may provide a better comparison

IMG_1927 (800x533).jpg

If possible Grant I would like to know which 2 you would prefer to use, and also what fertiliser, I have either powerfeed (which I believe you use?) and compact from bonsai south. The makeup of campact is as follows

N: 5%
P: 4%
K: 10%

Thanks in advance,

Kez

[Grant Bowie]

A and B look the closest in size and stage of growth. C looks sparse and D much bigger/fuller(Nice tree!).

I would use Powerfeed as it is higher in N, at its recommended dose.

I also use Seasol at the same time and use it and the powerfeed at recommended doses.

Grant

[kez]

Cheers Grant,

A and B it is

Kez

[Ray M]

Hi Grant,
The photo is of the two trees I thought I would use for the trial. They are both air layers. They are the same age and from the same tree, so the characteristics should be identical. I just posted some history of the trees in another thread. Layering more Black Pines. Are these trees suitable for your trial?

I have just repotted the trees and would like to just feed them both with Seasol for a week. Is that okay? I would like to use Powerfeed, (N=12 P=1.4 K=7), and Seamungus, (N=4 P=1 K=1.5) to feed Pine 1. Is this okay?

I have been foliage feeding my Pines. Would you like me to continue doing this? If you do, should I do it to both trees or just Pine 1?

IMG_8950-51-1.jpg

Regards Ray

[Grant Bowie]

The 2 trees look fine.

I fertilise by watering the soil, allow to drain and then fertilising the soil and splashing some fertiliser over the foliage.

Please Fertilise tree no 1 and not number 2.

Are you saying you would fertilise no 1 with both Powerfeed and Seamungus?

Grant

[Grant Bowie]

Note to participants...

I am preparing a spreadsheet that lists all the steps I would like you to do and note;; you will be able to use the spreadsheet to record your date observations and make notes.

I Will have it out to you by 1st June and also put online to download if you wish.

It is OK to start now if you wish and OK if you can't start for a week or two. Exact dates are not necessary to follow but a trend will emerge over time; so don't worry if you miss something by a day or two, or even a week or two.

Grant

[Ray M]

The 2 trees look fine.

I fertilise by watering the soil, allow to drain and then fertilising the soil and splashing some fertiliser over the foliage.

Please Fertilise tree no 1 and not number 2.

Are you saying you would fertilise no 1 with both Powerfeed and Seamungus? Yes, if that is okay by you.

Grant

Thanks for putting together a spreadsheet. I was going to put one together for myself.

Regards Ray