Pin Oak direction advice

JaseH · Post by **JaseH** » June 21st, 2014, 5:07 pm

Prompted by Ken's thread on his Pin Oak - I thought I would post up mine which I'm about to work on soon. It is just losing the last of it's autumn leaves. I purchased this a few months ago with a few other trees from a guy local to me that was getting rid of the last of his bonsai trainers. This tree had been developed trunk wise but no branch work had been done. All I have done since aquring the tree is repot into this grow box as the old grow box was rotted and falling apart. This one has good nebari and movement down low for an informal upright and I'm looking forward to trying to develop some branches.

Front:

Right:

Left:

Back:

I am pretty sure I need to shorten the tree a little and select a new leader down lower. Being new to bonsai I am still learning and gaining confidence in my decisions and would hate to 'stuff up' a tree that has had so much work and time invested in it to this point! So I'm putting it out here for you guys to comment. This is what I am thinking it - cut at the blue line just above the front facing branch/shoot and wire the remaining branches.

I will trim the remaining branches back to a couple of buds and wire them. There is a bare patch to the right which I'm hoping I might get some new shoots appear? Will these shoot back that well, there some buds on the trunk on the other side but not where I need them!

Isitangus · Post by **Isitangus** » June 21st, 2014, 5:48 pm

I would be tempted to use the back as the new front (better root flare) and then use the first shoot on the right (or you could even use the 2nd one of the left) as the new leader-just an option.

Post by **kcpoole** » June 21st, 2014, 10:59 pm

I would actually like to see you chop again at the bottom of the straight vertical section, Not much taper beteween that and the next one down IMHO
That way you could get good taper and more movement in the top section.

Wire the branches out and down and you may get back budding lower if you are lucky

Ken

JaseH · Post by **JaseH** » June 23rd, 2014, 9:48 pm

I think it might be worth considering going lower - I tend to err on the conservative side without the confidence of experience. I'll also spend a bit more time looking at the current back as a possible new front. I think in the flesh the trunk texture is a little more interesting on the current front and the back forward movement is more suitable but that will change with shorter tree. Thanks for the suggestions.

dansai · Post by **dansai** » June 24th, 2014, 7:22 pm

Something I've read and heard a lot lately is people saying that they wished they had done what was necessary 5-10-20 years ago and now feel it's too late to chop back where they should have and rebuild and waste those years of growth. It is well worth having the courage to chop hard and grow what will be at least a good tree, possibly great, rather than leave it and work for 10 years on a mediocre one only to chop later or forever go "I wish I had......."

Looking at the growth since the last chop it seems to be mostly in the top section and the bottom of your tree has great potential, so I believe it would be well worth the lower chop.

Good luck and keep us posted.

marleey73 · Post by **marleey73** » June 24th, 2014, 7:34 pm

Very interested in this tree as yesterday I bought one at a nursery for $10 and it looks pretty much the same trunk as this one. I have no idea about them and am very pleased to read the valuable input into this tree. Has anyone a fully grown pin oak that we could have a look at . Thanks

JaseH · Post by **JaseH** » June 24th, 2014, 9:37 pm

marleey73 wrote:Very interested in this tree as yesterday I bought one at a nursery for $10 and it looks pretty much the same trunk as this one. I have no idea about them and am very pleased to read the valuable input into this tree. Has anyone a fully grown pin oak that we could have a look at . Thanks

I have not found a lot info around on pin oaks - except they are difficult to reduce leaf size on, so they are more suited to making larger bonsai. I love the scarlet color they get in autumn though.

Ok, I think where I now would like to chop to, there is no suitable shoot to make a new leader

. The green line is where I think ideally I need a new leader and cut to the lower dotted line? What looks like a suitable branch in the original photo is actually a lower back branch poking around the side. The other less ideal option would be to use the next higher branch on the left(blue line) and cut at the higher dotted line.

So I should I:

1. flat cut just above where I would like the new leader and hope for a suitable shoot in the correct spot?
2. Leave the trunk as is for the moment, trim the strong top branches right back, and hope I get some back budding in the correct spot for a later chop?
3. Use the leader marked by the blue line and see how it goes?
4. Something else....

Post by **kcpoole** » June 24th, 2014, 11:08 pm

I would flat cut above the hoped for spot, and wait for a new shoot to pop.

Pin Oak Should be reliable to back but below your cut.

Marley, the only one I have seen was displayed the School show last year. I have no idea whos it is tho

I think the upper trunk needs much more development but the ramification is quite good.
https://www.poolez.com/gallery2/main.php ... ewsIndex=1

My own progression thread is here viewtopic.php?f=129&t=15644

Ken

marleey73 · Post by **marleey73** » June 25th, 2014, 6:32 am

Thanks everyone great input.

chrisatrocky · Post by **chrisatrocky** » June 25th, 2014, 4:37 pm

Hi Jase, the first thing I notice about this tree is, with the front you have selected the trunk and apex goes away from the viewer, where as the back brings the trunk and apex towards you. I do agree the tree needs to be shortened. Develop the lower branches before the apex. I do like the movement in the trunk and the flare at the base.

chris

JaseH · Post by **JaseH** » June 25th, 2014, 7:52 pm

Thanks for the suggestions guys - I think I will chop at the lower spot and hope for a new shoot in a desireable location. Patience is the hardest skill to learn in bonsai I am finding - but its slowly coming, as the yard fills with trees!

Is it better to chop later in winter/early spring or doesnt it really matter once the tree is dormant?

Boics · Post by **Boics** » June 25th, 2014, 10:17 pm

Very good question Jase.
I've often wondered this one myself and will be most interested to hear peoples detailed views.

JaseH · Post by **JaseH** » July 27th, 2014, 7:48 pm

Finally got around to doing the deed today. Hope I get some favourable buds.

I've left one shoot high as a backup possible leader - but it isnt ideal. It wasnt wired earlier so it leaves the trunk at a 90degree angle and I'm not sure it will blend well. Should I shrorten this shoot to force more energy to bud formation around the cut?

Post by **kcpoole** » July 27th, 2014, 8:05 pm

You shodu get plenty of shoots on that now, and if not, then cut the leader to force some better ones.
Mine usually shoot back lower than up the top tho

Ken

JaseH · Post by **JaseH** » July 28th, 2014, 8:34 am

kcpoole wrote:You shodu get plenty of shoots on that now, and if not, then cut the leader to force some better ones.
Mine usually shoot back lower than up the top tho

hmmm probably should have left another cm or so in hindsight? The old cut made by the previous owner had some good strong shoots from close to the cut so hopefully this will be similar? Whatever comes - I'll make something work.

AusBonsai