Inorganic Mix plus Pine Bark

[Inspired]

This has predominantly been my main mix for the last 3 or so years for all my trees and the % of each varies with each tree.

- Diatomite
- Pumice
- Zeolite
- Pine Nuggets

This mix can dry out quite quickly and past summers has seen 2-3 casualties although most seem quite happy as long as I can get a nice "combo" going that favors their preference. For my causalities, I inspect the roots and notice that within a potting season, the tree does have tremendous root development but must have passed on due to "drying up" because of heat and dry winds.

I now try to pay more attention to particle size and how much pine nuggets I add if I think a tree needs more moisture as pine nuggets hold good moisture for long periods. Is this generally in the right direction?

This leads me to fertilizing. I read from various sources that with the substrates used, inorganic fertilizer has little benefit as the inorganic mix have little input in breaking down organic fertilizers due to the lack of microbes.

I currently use in pellet forms Osmocote, Sudden Impact, Dynamic Lifter, Rooster Booster. Does this mean my trees receive little to zero nutritional benefits because of the mix I am using?

I also use at intervals seasol, powerfeed & charlie carp.

Are my trees receiving optimum nutrients or how can I better what I am doing to be more effective so that my trees are vigorously healthy?

[Boics]

Hello Inspired.

This is exactly the same mix that I use - or thereabouts.

This mix has proven to retain moisture for longer periods than many other mixes I have used.
I know this as same species of plants in alternative mixes suffer from heat stress before tree's in my mix.

I have to wonder whether you have a mix problem or an overwatering problem?
I also have to wonder with the significant number of fertilizers you have that maybe this is the issue?

Substrates will provide little to no nutrient benefit this is is why you require ferts.

[Inspired]

Hi Boics

The casualties had quite large scoria in them which I have phased out of my mixes and I think is the culprit for extra fast drying out.

The fertz I have are just on hand though I wonder with the pellet forms whether my trees are getting the nutrients from them?

[treeman]

This has predominantly been my main mix for the last 3 or so years for all my trees and the % of each varies with each tree.

- Diatomite
- Pumice
- Zeolite
- Pine Nuggets

There's nothing wrong with this mix except that it will dry fast. If you can be home to water whenever they need it, fine-if you can't you will need to add water retaining ingredients like peat etc. This type of mix will need watering twice a day during summer (where I am anyway). I think it is too dry a mix for dry summer climates like south east Vic and Sth Aust and the West.. Mediterranean climates in other words. Probably good for medium to large pines though.

I now try to pay more attention to particle size and how much pine nuggets I add if I think a tree needs more moisture as pine nuggets hold good moisture for long periods. Is this generally in the right direction?

Yes and possibly finer particles as well.

This leads me to fertilizing. I read from various sources that with the substrates used, inorganic fertilizer has little benefit as the inorganic mix have little input in breaking down organic fertilizers due to the lack of microbes.

Total and utter crap. (what you read that is, not what you wrote )

I currently use in pellet forms Osmocote, Sudden Impact, Dynamic Lifter, Rooster Booster. Does this mean my trees receive little to zero nutritional benefits because of the mix I am using?

No

Are my trees receiving optimum nutrients or how can I better what I am doing to be more effective so that my trees are vigorously healthy?

Yes...as long as you are giving the right concentration!

[Inspired]

Treeman thanks for breaking down and attending to each of my questions.. my trees sends their bright n happy foliage!

[Elmar]

This leads me to fertilizing. I read from various sources that with the substrates used, inorganic fertilizer has little benefit as the inorganic mix have little input in breaking down organic fertilizers due to the lack of microbes.

Total and utter crap. (what you read that is, not what you wrote )

Hahaha, love it! Brought a tear to my eye...


Cheers
EZ
Sent using Tapatalk

[AGarcia]

Dom't forget that all the ingredients listed hold moisture, some more than others. Diatomite particles hold alot of water, so a fast mix doesn't necesarily mean constant watering.

AG

[Inspired]

Very tree indeed and also with diatomite when I use seasol, I get that green algae looking thing. Is there any way to keep it off my rocks?

[Boics]

I have to wonder whether you have a mix problem or an overwatering problem?

This was supposed to read UNderwatering problem!

I have not come across defined overwatering issues with this mix and as has been discussed before it could be argued that with such an inorganic mix that overwatering may not be an issue / possible?

Personally I had thought that everyone in Victoria with an exposed location would water their trees twice a day?

Beyond peat is there anything else that you might recommend Treeman?

[kcpoole]

This has predominantly been my main mix for the last 3 or so years for all my trees and the % of each varies with each tree.

- Diatomite
- Pumice
- Zeolite
- Pine Nuggets

There's nothing wrong with this mix except that it will dry fast. If you can be home to water whenever they need it, fine-if you can't you will need to add water retaining ingredients like peat etc. This type of mix will need watering twice a day during summer (where I am anyway). I think it is too dry a mix for dry summer climates like south east Vic and Sth Aust and the West.. Mediterranean climates in other words. Probably good for medium to large pines though.

Disagree totally with Treemans reply here, but agree with the other points..

I use no organics in my mix at all and have yet to try Pumice. All of my 6 inch or larger pots have particle size of 2 - 7 mm, and the training pots have a thin layer of larger to block the drainage holes.
I find it stays wetter ( or has usable water for the tree), longer than anything else I have tried, that includes Ray Nescis own personal mix thru to Akadama in its various combinations recommended.

I water once a day in Summer on all my trees in 6 inch or larger pots, and have no heat stress signs of any of them even on the 44 degree days of last summer.
My pots smaller than 6 inch get watered 2 times a day thru January and have particle size of 2- 5 mm of the same mix.

Blanket statements are disingenious, and lead to disappointment.
Experimen with your own trees and do controlled tests on several trees in your own environment to determine what works for you, but do not say something is wrong when it definitely works for some.

Ken

[Bougy Fan]

I have to agree Ken - different things work in different areas, ands it doesn't always make sense. I am now sifting my diatomite and only using + 4mm particles and about 40 % scoria. I found the unsifted diatomite held too much water for me - I noticed my figs weren't doing as well as they should due to wet feet. The trees I have transferred to this mix are doing really well now. As Ken mentioned experiment with your own mix in your own conditions and watering method.

[Inspired]

Interesting read.

One variable that would assist me greatly was if I had 30% plant shade I would feel much more at ease.

Currently Im doing the hard yakka of moving my trees around different areas to either get more sun or more shade..

The bigger and heavier ones hmmm

Last year I lost a pine that was in the ground that was doing well but the week long summer of 40+ burnt all the needles and that was that.

I also lost half a white pine that was in the ground too. Melbourne sun is very direct and brittle.. you can cook an egg on your trees

[treeman]

[quote="kcpoole"

Disagree totally with Treemans reply here, but agree with the other points..

How can you disagree with something which has nothing to disagree with?? I said ''where I am" ...I would have to water that mix 2 or even 3 times a day during summer. (Are you disagreeing with that statement?) My climate has very dry (and hot) winds in summer. Humidity as low as 10 or 15% often. Perhaps coastal NSW has much higher humidity and therefore the container will not dry out as quickly.

Blanket statements are disingenious, and lead to disappointment.
Experimen with your own trees and do controlled tests on several trees in your own environment to determine what works for you, but do not say something is wrong when it definitely works for some

[/quote][/quote].

I don't what know your definition of a blanket statement is Ken but I think if you re-read it you will maybe reconsider.

Mike

[kcpoole]

This has predominantly been my main mix for the last 3 or so years for all my trees and the % of each varies with each tree.

- Diatomite
- Pumice
- Zeolite
- Pine Nuggets

There's nothing wrong with this mix except that it will dry fast. If you can be home to water whenever they need it, fine-if you can't you will need to add water retaining ingredients like peat etc. This type of mix will need watering twice a day during summer (where I am anyway). I think it is too dry a mix for dry summer climates like south east Vic and Sth Aust and the West.. Mediterranean climates in other words. Probably good for medium to large pines though.

Disagree totally with Treemans reply here, but agree with the other points..

I use no organics in my mix at all and have yet to try Pumice. All of my 6 inch or larger pots have particle size of 2 - 7 mm, and the training pots have a thin layer of larger to block the drainage holes.
I find it stays wetter ( or has usable water for the tree), longer than anything else I have tried, that includes Ray Nescis own personal mix thru to Akadama in its various combinations recommended.

I water once a day in Summer on all my trees in 6 inch or larger pots, and have no heat stress signs of any of them even on the 44 degree days of last summer.
My pots smaller than 6 inch get watered 2 times a day thru January and have particle size of 2- 5 mm of the same mix.

Blanket statements are disingenious, and lead to disappointment.
Experimen with your own trees and do controlled tests on several trees in your own environment to determine what works for you, but do not say something is wrong when it definitely works for some.

Ken

See the comment in your original post in Red above which is the blanket statement I disagree with.

It may dry out fast for you which I have , as you say, I no way to check, but from my own testing here, any soil component compared to diatomite will dry out faster.
As to why I might have slower drying times than yourself I have no idea.

As I have mentioned, in Sydney we had lasy year about 3 weeks of temps above 40 with little humidity.
I watered once a day during that time with no issues for my trees.
Ken

[treeman]

Beyond peat is there anything else that you might recommend Treeman?

Any finer material will hold more water by creating a finer pore structure but at the expense of air-filled porosity so you you need to balance each of these variables. I mentioned peat because it is traditionally used to increase water holding capacity yet has pores within its structure as opposed to fine sand which does not. But fine sand is used for this purpose too as is finer bark (which breaks down quickly) or coir which has a few chemical problems but excellent structure.
Zeolite will work too and has the advantage (like peat and coir) of having a high cation exchange capacity. (diatomite and scoria have next to none)
But generally if you reduce the particle size you increase the water holding.