Effects of HARD WATER on the soil

[Elmar]

OK, been out and about (as you do) and met a new (to Town) Horticulturist and I got into an interesting discussion about Bonsai (as we do)...

He's fresh from South Africa and has developed a dislike for our local Town water (I can understand that). During the discussion he said that, because Hedland water is semi-hard, that that causes problems for the soil!

He postulates that, as the water dries it leaves behind calcium deposits (something I can attest to) and that will cause a build up over time in the soil. Every time we wash our cars, if we don't dry it as we go it leaves white calcified remnants all over the vehicle so I can see where he comes from.

How much, in your considered opinion, wold that affect the trees and their survival? As I posted previously, after 12 months there are things I have learned, but I wonder if this is something I have not considered?! Would this be a potential cause of the death of some of my trees? Would the calcium build up be that detrimental to our trees?

[dansai]

I had my ideas but wanted to check them and found this.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATHard ... onsai.html

[Wayne R]

There is another water aspect that may require consideration and that is the quality of domestic well/bore water which can be horrendously high in dissolved minerals. Much as I would love to use rain water, that option is not always available in a country as dry as Oz. FNQ readers can disregard.

Here, just south of Perth, I have noticed all my plastic pot drain holes are gathering a 'white crust' which I assume to be calcium; they get both bore and town water. Better add vinegar to my shopping list.

[shibui]

White crust on pots is not always calcium. It can also be other salts (Please do NOT read salt as in kitchen salt NaCl). Salts are often left over from the fertilisers that the plants have not used. They can also come from the water. I will consult with a water treatment expert and get back with more.

[Pierre]

Would it be fair to say then that tap water should be better suited to Azaleas and other lime loving plants?

[Elmar]

I had my ideas but wanted to check them and found this.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATHard ... onsai.html

That is a very interesting read! It's what the Horticulturalist suggested... said that with our water here in Hedland the soil will eventually turn alkaline which suits algae and causes a buildup of not only the minerals but also algae. the longer it is left untouched the worse the problem becomes.

So he suggested filling a tank up with the tap water and then testing it (like a pool test) and adjust the pH with a 'soft acid' like vinegar... something like this is also mentioned in the blog linked above.

There is another water aspect that may require consideration and that is the quality of domestic well/bore water which can be horrendously high in dissolved mineral ...

I think that you have hit the nail on the head, but I don't have access to a well/bore - I'm talking about our Town water!

White crust on pots is not always calcium. It can also be other salts ...

I think that is correct, however I believe in my case this is less likely as I don't fertilise my cars/Trucks and still have these white streaks appearing once I wash them!
I look forward to what you discover from your Water Treatment Experts as I intend on keeping the trees I have now as well as any new trees that come my way! There'll be no more tree deaths in my house!

Would it be fair to say then that tap water should be better suited to Azaleas and other lime loving plants?

G'Day Pardb, as I read it on the linked blog, Azaleas like an acidic environment (pH 5.0-6.0) so that is the opposite to Alkaline (pH 7.5+)! Mine appears to be a condition of increased alkalinity due to deposits from semi-hard tap water... and, just to add insult to injury, the gravel trays I am using to hold extra water are covered in algae! So I'm kinda convinced at this stage ...

[Pup]

G,day Elmar get a couple of large drums ie 44 gallon fill them let it stand then use the water around 24 hours should be enough.

I live in the Kelmscott area we have had our water tested on a regular basis by a scientist from CSIRO ( retired) who still does it part time for them.
For the last 4 times it is among the purest in the metro area. Free of any nasties.

Cheers Pup

[Elmar]

G,day Elmar get a couple of large drums ie 44 gallon fill them let it stand then use the water around 24 hours should be enough.

I live in the Kelmscott area we have had our water tested on a regular basis by a scientist from CSIRO ( retired) who still does it part time for them.
For the last 4 times it is among the purest in the metro area. Free of any nasties.

Cheers Pup

Thx Pup,
that is my plan - I was just testing to see what the consensus is, you know, maybe this guy was talking thru his Butt!? I've never heard of hard water having this effect on plants. I guess its not unreasonable and the more I read about it the more likely it is. So now I can take some small comfort in the knowledge that I am not entirely useless (pity-party for one ) but now it changes everything I thought I had figured out ... Back to the drawing board! Haha.

As you have suggested, I have come to the same conclusion and am looking into some form of storage tank so that I can let the water settle, perhaps, if necessary test and treat so it has a neutral pH and then use it to water my trees... 44 Gallon drums should be easy to find in Hedland but they are all oily or damaged so not the best option. For a couple of hundred dollars I can get an oval 'Under-awning' tank that is one option, another is option is to get a "Spot Sprayer" set-up (tank, pump and nozzle) which I can use for watering, mixing of fertilisers with water and then water or just letting the water sit - but this option is very much more expensive...

Of corse I can always use beer ( ) lol, much more expensive and not guaranteed to be an improvement on what is happening now ... but it might make the heat much more beerable (hehe)...

[treebuilder]

Hi Elmar, maybe it could be worth trialing or enquiring about hose filtration or similar products.

http://www.purewaterproducts.com/garden-hose-filters

cheers

[Pup]

David Smith who owned the Nursery in Martin, (Gosnells) bought a large above ground Pool, because there was too much Iron in his water. Put a cover over that and used it for all his watering needs. His nursery was one of the few in the district that did not have and Brown Iron stained plant supply.

Cheers Pup

[Elmar]

Hi Elmar, maybe it could be worth trialing or enquiring about hose filtration or similar products.

http://www.purewaterproducts.com/garden-hose-filters

cheers

Thx TB,
you realise this is a US site and that makes it a little bit more expensive ... One of our local Mining Giants uses filtration systems like this and replaces the filters every 3 months. The local Plumbers tell me that the filter cartridges are useless after 6 weeks! So, at around $100 a filter (local prices) that makes it $900 a year. I don't wish to 'Torpedo' your suggestion but I have been looking in to improving the water supply to my home for a little bit and its only now that my trees are suffering that the penny has dropped - guess I am a slo learner after all...
I must admit, reading thru the information on that site was interesting!

Pup, if we got a pool I'd have Buckleys' Chance of keeping the kids out of it! ... but I guess that would give me plenty of urinated water to fertilise my trees with
Bonsai4me suggests it takes about 3 years to become proficient in, or understand the watering of Bonsai trees - looking on the bright side, I only have 2 to go!

44 Gal Drum/ Tank/pool - these all come down to the same thing, water storage to allow the 'hardness' to settle out.
The advantage is that I can treat the water to control the pH and can add fertilisers of my choosing ... either way, its going to be around $1K to start off with! There is an alternative ... ICBs ...

8010_1.jpg

.. but its soooo ugly

[Phoenix238]

As far as containers go, I'm not sure how many farms you have up that way but you could try looking around for the 1000L "Shuttles" that we often get chemicals in. We use 4 of them to refill our spray unit, but I've heard of people using them at home too. They're basically a big white 1m cube on a metal frame

[Phoenix238]

Haha, great minds think alike CoG, you beat me to it!

[Elmar]

Haha, great minds think alike CoG, you beat me to it!

[Elmar]

sooooo ... ICBs - I can get some relatively clean ones that used to contain AdBlu which, on the surface at least, seems to have added bonus of a little bit if fertiliser SHOULD the container not be fully rinsed out!

.. but its soooo ugly