Dangers of a Wet Layer

[Ray M]

Hi folks,
I thought I should post this information. As mentioned below, I haven't finished the research as yet. I will update as I find more information. I intend to email this information to all the members who have purchased any of my books.

Dangers of a Wet Layer
I have been researching this issue for eighteen months or more. My research shows that a Wet Layer is more detrimental to an Air Layer than a dry layer. I'm still researching this subject, so my data is not complete as yet.
The following information will show what results from a wet layer, and what I am doing to address this issue. Please remember, this research is not complete.

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I have applied the following two procedures to try and prevent this from happening.

SEALING THE ENDS OF THE LAYER

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Saving the Layer
Can the layer be rescued? The answer is yes, as long as there is still good growth on the layer.
1. Remove the plastic, sphagnum moss, muck and wire.
2. Clean the area with a spray bottle.
3. Make a new cut above the old top cut until you can see new tissue.
4. Now do all the other steps to complete the new layer.
5. Make sure you squeeze most of the water out of the sphagnum. Don't have it too wet.
6. After the layer is completed seal the end/ends as described above.
7. Make sure you leave the Alfoil open at the bottom. This prevents water gathering in the Alfoil, which can wick up into the layer.

Regards Ray

[Raymond]

Once again, RayM has delivered. Thanks mate!

[Ray M]

Once again, RayM has delivered. Thanks mate!

Hi Raymond,
Thanks mate. Please remember that this is still in the research stage. Hopefully it will help to deal with one problem with layers. I have a few experiments going at present testing effects on layers.

Regards Ray

[lackhand]

I can attest to the dangers of a wet layer. It's so hot and dry here, that I made an extra effort to make sure my crepe myrtle layers didn't dry out last summer.

When I went to separate them, I did indeed have roots, but they had already started rotting and turning black. Due to the fact that I was trying to layer the top off of a 5 meter tree that my wife had been at me to get out of the yard, I wasn't particularly motivated to try again, so I separated it and hoped for the best. Now it's firewood. The height contributed to the problem, because it was hard to check on (had to borrow my neighbor's ladder to get up there), so I set it up almost the opposite of what Ray is describing, so I could just squirt water up there and make sure it was wet. No bueno.

So my experience aligns with what Ray is saying - too wet is not your friend. Sphagnum and much will hold a lot of moisture, so have faith in it.

[fredman]

Thanks Ray. My layers were definitely not to wet. If anything I was worried it might be on the dry side. I opened the foil regularly to check by feeling and lightly squeezing especially the bottoms. I had a dowel pin in there and checked it once per week. Im used to checking my bonsais that way. When you hold the dowel to your lower lip you can safely judge how wet or dry it is.... After about 3 months I had to inject water into it for the first time.

[longd_au]

Hi Ray

Do you have any research that might test the relationship between aeration and the success of layer?
Would a Wet Layer causing failure related to the lack of oxygen just like how everything dies when water are starved of oxygen in rivers and lakes (from excessive rotting materials)?

Following this thread with interest.

Regards

[fredman]

Mmm now there is a thought...

[Jarad]

Could you use some sort of geotextile?

[Ray M]

Hi Ray

Do you have any research that might test the relationship between aeration and the success of layer?
Would a Wet Layer causing failure related to the lack of oxygen just like how everything dies when water are starved of oxygen in rivers and lakes (from excessive rotting materials)?

Following this thread with interest.

Regards

Hi longd_au,
No I don't. That said I have found that the layers encased in the plastic have, mostly been successful.

These are a few photos.

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Regards Ray

[Ray M]

Could you use some sort of geotextile?

Hi Jarad,
I think you would loose to much moisture. There needs to be a balance between enough moisture and not completely dry. The way I check my layers, is to examine them by removing the Alfoil and inspecting the moisture content. If you can see condensation there is sufficient moisture. If there is no condensation and the sphagnum is looking white there is most probably not enough moisture. If the layer looks like this and you gently squeeze the layer it will tend to be fairly firm.

Regards Ray

[Ryceman3]

Interesting thread Ray,
You've got me a bit worried about over-compensating with too much moisture when I found my Mel layers a little dry a few weeks back. Although the description you give for a dry layer in your last post was pretty spot on with what I found when I removed the foil... so guess I was right to add moisture, I just hope it wasn't too much!
I'll head back down to check em out soon and keep my thread updated. Thanks for your continued info/wisdom & advice on this forum... always learning something from your posts!
Cheers!

[Ray M]

Hi all,
I have gained some more data for this experiment. The following photo shows some of the layers I removed on 2 April 2015. These layers were placed on the tree a couple of months ago. It appears that the sealing of the ends of the layers is working the way I had hoped for. You will notice that the layers are more white in colour. They weren't dry, there was still enough moisture to keep them healthy. I went over to a friends place a week or so ago and found that she had injected some layers and made them too moist. When the layers are too moist the colour will be a brown colour and if you gently squeeze the layer you will see water inside the plastic. As long as there is condensation inside the plastic that is sufficient moisture. If you have a look further up in the thread, where I opened up one of the wet layers, you will notice how brown the layer looks. I redid this layer, sealing the ends, and it has worked very well. It is one of the layers in the photo. I still have some layers on at home and two other locations. When I gain the data from these I should be able to come to a final conclusion and write up the complete document.

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Regards Ray

[Elmar]

Awesome Ray,
I've been told (a while back) that you should only cut the layer off when the roots are brown - is that the 'brown' you are talking about or that something completely different?


Cheers
EZ
Via Tapatalk

[Ray M]

Hi EZ,

Awesome Ray,
I've been told (a while back) that you should only cut the layer off when the roots are brown That's not necessarily correct. Brown roots are usually caused by the layer not being covered, and the sun has either scorched the roots or the roots have matured. The colour can also be influenced by the species of tree. If you look at the roots of the layers in the photos you will see they are quite white. I look for a good root mass rather then the colour. Once I have a good root mass I will cut the layer off. - is that the 'brown' you are talking about or that something completely different? No mate, the brown I am referring to is the colour of the moss

Cheers
EZ
Via Tapatalk

Regards Ray

[raewynk]

Thank you RayM,

sounds like why my fig didn't take to the air layering I put on. Twice. I might have kept it too wet.
Great to have an explaination after all my attempts.

Great To have the Master explain to us all. Great data.

Cheers
Rae