Needle pruning clarification

[Scooter_M]

Hey guys,

I have a JBP that is starting to look like it needs a hair cut. The whole needling and candling part of pines, times of year, etc, i sort of get it, but still not 100% on one main thing.

I have a pine with a structure like my very crude drawing below. The picture is showing a single branch coming off the main trunk. Needles all the way along it, and the red things are new candles coming up.

I was going to de-needle it as from the wiki autumn is needle plucking time. I've done a bit of reading and here is what i know so far:

1 - Needling or letting them go is a way to control the strength of the growing area, reducing an areas vigor by lowering needles to 3-5 pairs, or keeping strength by leaving 8-11 pairs.
2 - Pulling the needs out from the base takes the bud with it, thus reducing (completely removing??) the chances of budding in the future.

What im unclear about, is i have a tree with a branch as shown in the picture below. Red being candles coming through. I want to keep some of these candles, but if needle prune around the candle, will that reduce the growth of the candle? How far down this example branch would you guys needle prune, with the expectation of still leaving it to grow a little more - possibly fork - at the end, and get another branch coming off it.

Black pine.jpg

The whole thing is just a bit straggely and im trying to tidy it up.

[Jarad]

Hey Mate is there any chance of getting a photo? It might help the guys help you out.

Also, have you watched the videos from this post:
viewtopic.php?f=131&t=15503&start=15#p157913

[MoGanic]

Hey buddy,

The buds will only be damaged if you pluck the needles on the bud. If you want them to take off, you need to weaken everything above it by cutting the needles.

In other words, to redirect energy to the lower buds, reduce the buds at the top of the tree to two and reduce the needles by cutting them.

Unfortunately without seeing the tree no one can comment how much to remove and where specifically, for this type of specific advice you should be able to squeeze some info out of your local nursery.

If your in Melb I'd strongly suggest taking advantage of the classes on Saturdays at Bonsai Sensation (free).

Cheers,
Mo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scooter_M]

Cheers guys, will grab a photo when I get home. Was at work so drew a picture

[xIIRevoEvoS]

Hi Scooter,

I think this could also help you abit in another post that I made couple of months ago, since I also own about 8-10 JBP from starters to developing JBP and was also talking about needle plucking, decandling, ramification etc...
viewtopic.php?f=131&t=19615

Alot of the question that I wanted was clarified by other members of the forum which helped me decide where I wanted to go and Squizzy also made a post about a starter JBP with bends etc..
Another advice is probably Leongs JBP book which can also help

[kcpoole]

Is this a young tree?
If so in would not be plucking at all. Leave it alone or trunk chop it for taper

[Scooter_M]

Hey guys, here's the tree, the pic of the close up branch u can see the sets of candles I'm referring to. But if u look at the over tree, it's just so wild and scruffy it needs to be cleaned up. I'm also aware some branches need to be wired, just havnt gotten to that yet






Oh and kc it was meant to have been planted in 2004, but I dunno, looks a bit under developed for 11 years.. ???

[bonsaisensation]

hi there
first of all, i don't think it's a JBP. it looks more like a scots pine.
secondly, it is quite safe to cut back to the two buds closer to the trunk.
lastly, if you were hoping to move the branches with the wire, you might like to try to wrap it around with firm contact to the branches. with all the big gaps in the loops, the branches will have a hard time setting in positions.

regards

[Scooter_M]

Scots pine hey? Label told me it was a JBP. Will check out Scots pine and see

And yeah the loose wire atm is just to keep some rough shape, trying to work out what I'm doing with all these needles before I wire properly
cheers

[shibui]

first of all, i don't think it's a JBP. it looks more like a scots pine.

Or possibly mugho but I agree. Does not look at all like JBP

Both Scots and Mugho are once a year budding species so they won't respond the same as JBP if you use JBP techniques.

[Scooter_M]

Both Scots and Mugho are once a year budding species so they won't respond the same as JBP if you use JBP techniques.

Interesting you say that, because i gave it a clip back in December when i thought it was a JBP, and those candles are a result of that clipping. Would that make sense? what time of year does a scots or mugho bud?

[shibui]

Interesting you say that, because i gave it a clip back in December when i thought it was a JBP, and those candles are a result of that clipping. Would that make sense? what time of year does a scots or mugho bud?

Yes, that makes perfect sense. If it was a JBP the buds would have opened up and grown into new shoots during summer. Single flush species like Mugho and Scots form new buds but they will not open until the following spring.
I seem to recall some previous Ausbonsai discussion on the differences with comments from Grant Bowie. Some searching may yield something?

[Scooter_M]

ahh awesome thanks for that!

Back to the books!!

[treeman]

Scooter, No one has mentioned it yet so I will. This tree has no direction and worse it looks like it is begining to develop reverse taper. You need to bite the bullet and take the tree back to some kind of form that you can build on. If you are unsure what to do, get along to a club meeting or check out lots of bunjin pics. The top needs to be reduced drastically for a start. Make some sketches to get some ideas. Needle plucking is not really on this tree's horizon but removing last years needles may help you see something in the tree which you cannot see now. Don't wait another 11 years, it will only get worse.

[dansai]

I'ld be putting it in a larger lot too so that it can put on some bulk and get some vigour. It will only grow slow and spindly while in such a small pot. It may well be 11 years old, but if it has been in a small pot that whole time then not much growth would have happened. If it stays in that pot, growth will only get slower. Once you have the trunk and branches sorted it can go back into a small pot and you can refine it.