Using Akadama and Kanuma

[Japh]

This stuff about using cat litter as a mix... in what situations are we talking about? Just as a mix for potting up a bonsai? I assume this wouldn't be appropriate to use for a grow box?

As a beginner, I'm really not sure what soil is best to use, or where! You can see in my photo on this post viewtopic.php?f=104&t=2020&start=15#p19808 that I have some Amgrow "bonsai soil" ready to go... but I'm curious about whether the cat litter would work just as well. Or better!

[techpetal]

Japh,

Search the posts. This is a big topic and drags in numerous opinions and discussion.

Cheers
Tech

[Japh]

Thanks, Techpetal.

It's safe to assume I have already tried searching, however I haven't found an answer to my question.

In particular, regarding the use of cat litter for a grow box.

[Bretts]

The first thing you need to realise Japh is that bonsai can grow in marbles if you realy want them too. Water in a certain manner in various climates and you will get any substrate to work
The magical factor happens when you find a medium that workes best for your watering habits and the tree. When you understand what a trees roots like you can find a substrate that gives the best conditons for the longest period of time to your watering methiod and climate.
There can be added bonosus like minerals and nutrient holding capasity. The most important factor I think is air to water ratio.

[aaron_tas]

bretts is right, they don't mind what you use, just water accordingly.

you can use whatever mix you prefer in any sized pot (or grow box)

i havent tried straight inorganic with elm before...

but i do get better results with very open mixes(90 inorganic : 10 organic) with size particles 3-7mm. (cat litter would be your inorganic part)

remember roots like lots of air, and with this type of mix the more times you refresh the air (water) the better, but with your amgrow mix be careful, you can overwater in rich inorganic mix's

does this help

[kcpoole]

Thanks, Techpetal.

It's safe to assume I have already tried searching, however I haven't found an answer to my question.

In particular, regarding the use of cat litter for a grow box.

the kitty litter referred to is made from Diatomite. See here https://www.mtsylviadiatomite.com.au/

See my threads on Growing medium tests ( 4 of them ), and also my thread on inert growing mediums. viewtopic.php?f=12&t=40

Ken

[Japh]

Thanks heaps, Ken, Brett, and Aaron. That's exactly the kind of info I was after. I wonder whether a cutting would take off best in Amgrow or kitty litter... perhaps I should test that with my Cherry Plum cuttings when I get a chance to take them...

[aaron_tas]

why not try three; strait litter, strait amgrow and fitty fitty

i'd definitely be interested to see how it all goes

[Japh]

why not try three; strait litter, strait amgrow and fitty fitty

i'd definitely be interested to see how it all goes

Mostly because I don't know that I could get that many cuttings off my parents' cherry plum tree... we'll see though, hoping to try this weekend.

[Chris H]

Theyll probably be easier in Cat Litter. The roots in the other mix will easily get water logged.
I use sand for cuttings, others use vermiculite or Cat litter
Japh this topic is so large youll never find "the" answer. (shouldnt say never, you could stop doing everything else in your life and become a soil expert with no life and perhaps get there!)

[Japh]

Ok, well I guess the Amgrow was money down the toilet! It does say something on it about having fertilisers mixed in or something... I assumed that'd be a good thing, especially for fattening up the elm. But I guess then there's a danger of over-feeding, at least with the cat litter I know exactly how much feed is going in, etc.

[kcpoole]

Ok, well I guess the Amgrow was money down the toilet! It does say something on it about having fertilisers mixed in or something... I assumed that'd be a good thing, especially for fattening up the elm. But I guess then there's a danger of over-feeding, at least with the cat litter I know exactly how much feed is going in, etc.

Any Potting soil will do and you need to monitor how much feed and water you give it depending on your individual environment.

Once your cuttings have roots and can support themselves on them, then it does not really matter what they are in so long as you look after them correctly. Amgrow woudl be one of the better "Commercial" soil mixes and should be fine for anyone to use.

I would first learn about maintaining Trees in good health in whatever mix you are comfortable using, before you get involved in Trying out some exotic ingredients.

I am starting to use and experiment with my non organics after 4 years of using a Well known bonsai mix and learning the limitations of that. I then started looking at alternatives I can try. As i do not have any mentor / teacher or others experienced in using Non organics, we have had to tread slowly to ensure we do not kill our trees. Hopefully we can spread the word and there will be more local experience with them.

Unless you are confident in what you can achieve. then tread carefullly. the same applies to Akadama and Kanuma, as the local knowledge in using these is not here yet.

Ken

[Japh]

Thanks, Ken, I appreciate your advice very much. I guess it's hard to switch from whatever you're used to in a way, as there are quite a few variables that change then, and what you've learnt may not be accurate anymore. I suppose in that sense it's in my favour to start out using something like cat litter, because then that'll be what I get to know.

[Chris H]

Its not wasted.
Id use the Amgrow for your grow box. There are many people out there who would be using this mix very successfully. I have a couple of trees which I have in exactly this mix.
You just have to watch overwatering and I dont think it lasts as long, you end up repotting more often I think.
KC is right, practice with what youve got. Its not a waste as you will learn from the experience.
Using a non organic like diotomite is a pretty tricky thing, as KC says there arent that many who do.

[Pup]

With the Bonsai Masters( as we in the western world call them ) of Japan have been using Akadama for centuries.
For both growing and producing Masterpiece Bonsai.
There success with cuttings in Akadama is the same. I do not see what all the fuss is about!!.
OH! sorry you cant get that in Tasmania.
Simple sharp sand is the way to go. Propagators sand in most Plant sellers. It is usually called seed raising mix.
I have in the past used that with 25 mm cuttings of Chinese elm John.Y.Naka in his first book shows Prunus ( cherry family ) cuttings from 2--5 inches (50 mm--125 mm ) in what he calls course sand, we call it sharp sand. Page 187 fig's 340 --341. I know this will be an on going discussion, but I have had my say. I have had success also with crab apple in this mix and plums.
Pup