Scott's pine from Hiro workshop.

[wattynine]

love it, has been styled nicely, branches as discussed maybe a little crazy but this and the root is what will make people stop and have another look.
Im for keeping the knee
Watty

[jezz_39]

I like the knee. Perhaps one day it will be turned into a deadwood feature?
Looking forward to seeing the tree fill out, especially the foliage pad on the back which will add a lot more depth. Keep at it

[treeman]

I like the knee and the secondary trunk. They both remove the tree from the ordinary.

It still has a few years to mature but what a great start and material.

Grant

I'm all for out of the ordinary but the secondary trunk is not a trunk, it is a branch, and the unnatural u-turn (seen clearly from the back) is undesirable to me. Things just don't grow that way. It is thicker, lower and older than the other branches therefore it should be dominant not subordinate to the higher thinner branches. So, because of the angle of emergence from the trunk, it should either be trained up (not a good solution) or removed.
The only way this could conceivably occur naturally is such a branch (trunk) growing up and getting snapped off to re-grow a side branch downward in which case the angle would be very acute (just as the other branches are)
The knee just reminds me of material which was initially crammend and root-bound in a small pot, nothing natural.
There should always be a good reason for being out of the ordinary. Bad styling should not be one of them.
all very much of course!
The tree will be a good one.

[bodhidharma]

Now back on thread, What a lovely tree Bodhi and congrats.
ps I quite like the knee

A lovely pot and a fantastic start for this pine. Very nice Bodhi.

Thanks Gentlemen, I also believe this tree has a lt of potential.

by GavinG » July 8th, 2015, 3:35 pm

Three dimensions on a flat screen is certainly tricky.

The two things that jar for me I suspect aren't a problem in the bark. The knee and the first left branch look too close, but if the knee is backward-ish and the branch is more forward, I suspect that there feels to be more space in 3D. Similarly with the anchor-jin - it jars with the back branch, but once again it seems that they would be quite separate in 3D. The left branch that arches down echoes the top branches and works well. Seems to me that the knee is extreme, but echoes the first left branch and the angle in the top trunk really well, so it has a place, and the low trunk might seem a bit straight and tubular without it.

Interesting that you wanted a right-leaning tree but the tree wanted to go left and up. I've found it difficult to keep the down-side branches strong enough, even with selective pinching. (OK, I'm not exactly obsessive...)

Thanks for posting,

Gavin

One at a time Mr "G" The knee and branch do not clash in real viewing, they actually enhance each other. Creating an "Interesting tree" is not an easy thing to do and i find i am becoming bored with basic stylings and looking to create trees that "create questions". Once the tree fills out it will be much more pleasing. Thanks for always creating interesting points of view.

I like the knee and the secondary trunk. They both remove the tree from the ordinary.
As do i Grant, as do i.

love it, has been styled nicely, branches as discussed maybe a little crazy but this and the root is what will make people stop and have another look.
Im for keeping the knee
Watty

My sentiments too Watty.

by jezz_39 » July 8th, 2015, 5:04 pm

I like the knee. Perhaps one day it will be turned into a deadwood feature?
Looking forward to seeing the tree fill out, especially the foliage pad on the back which will add a lot more depth. Keep at it

I think that is the key also, filling out. The tree does not back bud with ease but once it does it will be a very nice tree. I am still learning about Scott's so it is important i make this tree happen.

I'm all for out of the ordinary but the secondary trunk is not a trunk, it is a branch, and the unnatural u-turn (seen clearly from the back) is undesirable to me. Things just don't grow that way. It is thicker, lower and older than the other branches therefore it should be dominant not subordinate to the higher thinner branches. So, because of the angle of emergence from the trunk, it should either be trained up (not a good solution) or removed.
The only way this could conceivably occur naturally is such a branch (trunk) growing up and getting snapped off to re-grow a side branch downward in which case the angle would be very acute (just as the other branches are)
The knee just reminds me of material which was initially crammend and root-bound in a small pot, nothing natural.
There should always be a good reason for being out of the ordinary. Bad styling should not be one of them.
all very much of course!
The tree will be a good one.

AHH Mike, Love your posts as you shoot from he hip. What is important here is that the tree was workshopped with Hiro, and i should, out of respect, stay with his vision. He is much more learned than myself and i should not have bothered to do the workshop if i was going to go home and change it to the way i see it. One of the most important things i have learned in Bonsai, and life, is to see other's points of view, yours included. I like what you said about the "Snapped" branch and i will go with that. The tree is meant to be unusual as i have styled my share of basic trees and, just because it creates differing points of view means the tree has interest. Grant said it best "Otherwise the tree would be ordinary" and i am more interested in extraordinary.

[treeman]

AHH Mike, Love your posts as you shoot from he hip.

According to the movies, all the best gun-slingers do that don't they?

What is important here is that the tree was workshopped with Hiro, and i should, out of respect, stay with his vision. He is much more learned than myself and i should not have bothered to do the workshop if i was going to go home and change it to the way i see it.

I understand your sentiments but you should take Hiro's workshops as a guide not written in stone. He is fully aware and expects things to change over time. Eg. I have a juniper he used as a demo tree a few years back. Back then he deigned it with many more branches than it has now (and it was very nice) but it's quite obvious to anyone who sees it that it has only improved over the years. A total of 6 main branches have beed removed. I think you should always be willing to let the tree guide you and not just stick to a ridgid plan.
Also consider, he may have been suffering from jet lag when he pushed that branch down.