Trident Maple Chop

[Bonsaiforest]

Hello to all, well I decided to chop one of my smaller tridents a few weeks back. Cut it down to just above what I thought was a dormant bud. Sealed it with that gooey cut paste. I've kept the soil moist only watering lightly once a week. It receives half sun each day as I thought this would be good to keep roots below warm...not sure if that's the right way or not. Any way in the last couple of days its been pushing this clear liquid out the top making the cut paste bubble and burst with fluid leaking down the sides of trunk. Really not sure if it buds will break...living in hope at the moment.

So questions are:

Should I keep watering enough to just keep roots moist...?
If it does shoot... Would it be ok to keep in half sun...? Or should I treat like a cutting and keep it in the shade and protected from wind..?
How long.. Or when should I expect budburst...? Really not sure as this is my first chop.

Gotta go and ask a few favours from upstairs...! Really hope this one survives

[shibui]

Stop worrying. Tridents are very tough and survive most things.
Don't worry about half sun unless that is what it is used to. I would have it in full sun - it is not a cutting, it has a full set of roots and is more than capable of coping with sun - in fact sun is good for it. After it starts growing you can keep it in full sun. The new leaves have not been in the shade so they will cope with full sun. Sun is good for tridents
Water as normal - keep roots just damp, not wet.
It may take a few weeks longer than the other tridents to bud. The tree has to activate dormant buds and get them growing.

The clear liquid is common. It seems to be the trees starting to send sap up to the branches and usually stops pretty quick. If it keeps oozing I have found that root pruning stops it.

[Pearcy001]

I too was considering chopping but a great deal of sap is flowing from the smallest of cuts on mine as well. Is it better to wait Shibui, or cut now and let it flow?

[Bonsaiforest]

Thanks Shibui...puts my mind at ease...Both yourself & Grant Bowie have suggested trimming the roots to slow down sap flow...So that'll be 1st on my to'do list for tomorrow

[shibui]

I too was considering chopping but a great deal of sap is flowing from the smallest of cuts on mine as well. Is it better to wait Shibui, or cut now and let it flow?

I try to avoid pruning maples at this time of year Pearcy. While they are bleeding the wound cannot close and infection sometimes gets in.
I prune maples early - mid winter or wait until after the leaves open fully.
Otherwise root prune then prune the top. Cutting the roots seems to prevent bleeding cuts.

[terry.muller2]

Good advice from shibui.
Trunk chop is a hasty method . The result is a blunt or slanted cut. If you are handy with a saw, try this, cut it off square then from the top and at one side of the tree, cut to the middle with a 45 degree cut inwards then from the opposite side cut back into the middle again at 45 degrees untill the 2/ cuts meet. By now the should have a wedge shape cut out. If you have the saw horizontal the cut should meet perfectly in the middle. This is a bit annal though. So when making the 45 degree cuts, angle the down so it creates a draining valley cut. Do this near the end of the 2nd month of winter (June). With the Trident Maple, don't concern youreslf too much with buds they will pop up all over the top. Let it grow enough to make your branch selection. I put wound dressing on the exposed wood, it will take many years to heal over but you can avoid having to carve the dead wood off . By ding this method. With the cuts you make, they don't need to meet in the middle. You can extend 1/ cut further past the middle then come back with a shorter cut on the other side. There is variations with the cut and how many programs shapes you make but, make sure it drains. Happy cutting.

Sent from my SM-T530 using Tapatalk

[Bonsaiforest]

Thanks for all the advise...greatly appreciated. It would be great if you posted detailed drawings of your "step by step" method of trunk chops...I'm sure many will be interested and saved for future use. You may also want to add to the "Wiki" for a reference for AusBonsai members to refer to.

Still waiting for my TM to pop buds and we're already into the second month of Spring. Shibui told me to be patient as it may take longer to show signs of new growth...So fingers crossed and hoping they'll come soon.

Thanks again will keep you posted on progress.

[shibui]

Not sounding good BF. I think if it was going to shoot you would see by now. All of my transplants from last winter now have leaves. It is possible that it bled too much before you stopped it and has died. This has happened to me many years ago. I would and give it a few more weeks though.

[Bonsaiforest]

Yeah... Even though it was a small bonsai and even smaller now...had it for a bit over ten years before I decided to do the chop with the thought of... & seeing potential improvement by changing the style of the tree...Trunk chop was definitely necessary & yes I've learnt my lesson of what happens when you chop at the wrong time. Will still wait and see what happens... hopefully it will pull through...!!!

[Bonsaiforest]

Stop worrying. Tridents are very tough and survive most things.
Don't worry about half sun unless that is what it is used to. I would have it in full sun - it is not a cutting, it has a full set of roots and is more than capable of coping with sun - in fact sun is good for it. After it starts growing you can keep it in full sun. The new leaves have not been in the shade so they will cope with full sun. Sun is good for tridents
Water as normal - keep roots just damp, not wet.
It may take a few weeks longer than the other tridents to bud. The tree has to activate dormant buds and get them growing.

The clear liquid is common. It seems to be the trees starting to send sap up to the branches and usually stops pretty quick. If it keeps oozing I have found that root pruning stops it.

Not sounding good BF. I think if it was going to shoot you would see by now. All of my transplants from last winter now have leaves. It is possible that it bled too much before you stopped it and has died. This has happened to me many years ago. I would and give it a few more weeks though.

Hey Shibui...Followed your direction... Trimmed roots to slow the bleed, kept soil just moist & placed in full sun. Thought I'd show you what's happened & the progress in the last 20 or so days. My Trident actually popped just after you last posted, & from the on just kept growing & growing...Much faster than what I thought...Think I can now say that I'm in the clear...I hope...? Lucky that I held in there, I was contemplating letting her go to "Bonsai Heaven". Well I've definitely learnt my lesson in regards to timing for chops. I'm just so surprised as to how hardy Trident's really are... Even though I was staying as positive as possible, in the back of my mind, I didn't think it would pull through. And "YES" the next chop I attempt will definitely be early to mid summer. Thanks again Shibui lesson learnt...

[shibui]

(Sigh of Relief)
It is always worth holding on for a little longer. Here is the proof.
My experience says that when shoots appear like this you are fine New roots will be growing rapidly underneath and those shoots will take off.
At some stage (unless you are going to try broom style) you will probably need to cut the top of the stump at an angle but I'd leave it for a full season to let the new shoots get strong. At this stage they are only very lightly attached and even a light touch can sometimes break them off where they join the older trunk.

Well done.

[Bonsaiforest]

(Sigh of Relief)
It is always worth holding on for a little longer. Here is the proof.
My experience says that when shoots appear like this you are fine New roots will be growing rapidly underneath and those shoots will take off.
At some stage (unless you are going to try broom style) you will probably need to cut the top of the stump at an angle but I'd leave it for a full season to let the new shoots get strong. At this stage they are only very lightly attached and even a light touch can sometimes break them off where they join the older trunk.

Well done.

Thanks Shibui... Seeing as I also want to improve the nebari...What would be the best approach? Ground layer or attempt several thread grafts? & would it be possible to do at the same time as when I re-shape the trunk next season? Or should I be waiting to focus on root work in year 2 when my tree is more established...?

[shibui]

Certainly wait until you have a good head of foliage. I believe that more leaves = more roots quicker. It has already been through enough stress this year. Time to allow it to rebuild strength and recover before your next onslaught. Whether this tree is ready next year will depend on how well it recovers and how well you nurture it this season. Plenty of water, fert and attention to get the most growth possible.

What would be the best approach? Ground layer or attempt several thread grafts?

Nothing is certain. Both methods work well in the right conditions but both have also failed to deliver at times. I think that where an entire new set of roots is needed the layer is best. If you only need a couple of roots to fill some space then approach graft or thread graft would be more appropriate but I have used the part layer method to get new roots started in just one section between other roots.