Dangers of a Wet Layer

[dan.fisher92]

Hey Ray could you possible send me through the information about your books also, going off your photos and descriptions i feel like they could be a valuable resource regards

[Truth]

Went out to check mine just earlier, and they were completely soaked from the constant rain Sydney's had the last few days
Not too sure how confident I should be feeling for this set of layers...

[Ray M]

Hey Ray could you possible send me through the information about your books also, going off your photos and descriptions i feel like they could be a valuable resource regards

Hi Dan,
Will send you a PM.

Regards Ray

[Ray M]

Went out to check mine just earlier, and they were completely soaked from the constant rain Sydney's had the last few days
Not too sure how confident I should be feeling for this set of layers...

Hi Truth,
How long ago did you do the layers?

Regards Ray

[Truth]

I did them around mid-late September. I know a great deal of time hasn't passed since then, and Ray Nesci even said give it until New Years most likely, but it seems I have been making a few mistakes with this set and with no evidence of a single root yet things aren't looking too good. I will try to treat them a bit better, and hope for the best all whilst giving them more time.

[Ray M]

I did them around mid-late September. I know a great deal of time hasn't passed since then, and Ray Nesci even said give it until New Years most likely, but it seems I have been making a few mistakes with this set and with no evidence of a single root yet things aren't looking too good. I will try to treat them a bit better, and hope for the best all whilst giving them more time.

Hi Truth,
Sorry I didn't ask this question before. What species do you have the layers on?

Regards Ray

[Truth]

I did them around mid-late September. I know a great deal of time hasn't passed since then, and Ray Nesci even said give it until New Years most likely, but it seems I have been making a few mistakes with this set and with no evidence of a single root yet things aren't looking too good. I will try to treat them a bit better, and hope for the best all whilst giving them more time.

Hi Truth,
Sorry I didn't ask this question before. What species do you have the layers on?

Regards Ray

Japanese Maples. Large garden trees, they're green and reasonably fast growing and vigorous for a Japanese Maple.

[Ray M]

Japanese Maples. Large garden trees, they're green and reasonably fast growing and vigorous for a Japanese Maple.

Hi Truth,
My following suggestion is only my opinion. Considering the time of year you put the layers on I would have expected to see some sign of roots. I personally would redo the layers. Please have a look at the beginning of this thread. The first tow photos show a wet layer. I decided to do this again and it was very successful. If you follow the steps laid out in, Saving the Layer, you should be able to get successful layers.

Regards Ray

[Truth]

That's Ray, i'll take a closer look and see what I can do tomorrow. Hopefully not all is lost.

[Ray M]

That's Ray, i'll take a closer look and see what I can do tomorrow. Hopefully not all is lost.

Hi Truth,
If there is still growth above the layers and the growth looks healthy there is no reason why you can't have success by doing the layers again.

Regards Ray

[Truth]

Ok Ray, so I decided to quickly take a look at the thickest layer I have, before the sun went down.

Here was the layer in it's initial state:

IMG_1831.JPG

A closer view:

IMG_1832.JPG

All the moss removed (the red is just a bit of paint.) Not a single root as of yet... There was a bit of thickening with a small callous formation, but nothing suggesting roots. How disappointing:

IMG_1833.JPG

I ringbarked another 1-2cm or so, scraped the heartwood back just a tiny bit, applied rooting hormone gel liberally:

IMG_1834.JPG

I put the sphagnum moss in a bucket with 50:50 seasol and water for a few mins, wrung it out, let it soak it up, wrung it out again etc. I finally wrung it really tightly then wrapped it around the cut. I applied a new plastic covering (old one had many holes poked into it and was getting a bit tattered). Zip tied it on tightly:

IMG_1835.JPG

I cut the long ends of the zip ties off, wrapped and it tighter with some string, poked some holes in the bottom with a skewer. Then applied foil with the bottom open:

IMG_1836.JPG

Closer view of the bottom:

IMG_1837.JPG

The sphagnum is much drier this time, with even more moss added. I'm hoping there's now a better chance of this taking. I will do the remaining layers tomorrow in more light.

[Ray M]

Ok Ray, so I decided to quickly take a look at the thickest layer I have, before the sun went down.

Hi Truth,
Good on you for checking. When you mentioned how wet they were I suspected there wouldn't be any roots. Hope it will go well for you this time.

Thanks for posting the photos. I'm sure this info is useful for others to see.

Just as a side issue. When doing a layer you only need to make the ring bark length about 1.5 times the diameter of the branch/trunk.

Truth, cut off the excess string that is outside the foil. That should prevent it from becoming a wick for wicking up water onto the top of the plastic.

Regards Ray

[Truth]

Thanks Ray, I went out and trimmed and neatened everything up a bit. I noticed that with the rain last night there was still some water getting it's way into the bag, so i've sealed both ends shut with a lot of electrical tape. Fingers crossed that it'll fix the issue.

I opened up the other 2, and the callousing on those showed signs that it was more advanced and tips of roots were imminent. I didn't re-cut those, instead reapplied wrung out dry sphagnum, and taped both ends off sealing it. I also started another, and applying all the correct techniques from the beginning. Hopefully that'll show faster development.

Just as an aside, on 2 of the layers were I dug into the heartwood a little too deeply (perhaps), I noticed the foliage above the layer not exactly wilting, but drooping just slightly. I'd assume this is the case due to interrupting it's water supply slightly, but not enough to outright kill it. Should I be worried about those, or will it slowly correct itself in time?

[Ray M]

Hi Truth,

Thanks Ray, I went out and trimmed and neatened everything up a bit. I noticed that with the rain last night there was still some water getting it's way into the bag, so i've sealed both ends shut with a lot of electrical tape. Fingers crossed that it'll fix the issue.

I opened up the other 2, and the callousing on those showed signs that it was more advanced and tips of roots were imminent. I didn't re-cut those, instead reapplied wrung out dry sphagnum, and taped both ends off sealing it. I also started another, and applying all the correct techniques from the beginning. Hopefully that'll show faster development.

Just as an aside, on 2 of the layers were I dug into the heartwood a little too deeply (perhaps), I noticed the foliage above the layer not exactly wilting, but drooping just slightly. I'd assume this is the case due to interrupting it's water supply slightly, but not enough to outright kill it. Should I be worried about those, or will it slowly correct itself in time? Were those two layers very wet when you checked them?

Regards Ray

[Truth]

Hi Ray,

They were a bit wet yes, I have been noticing this progressively over the last 2 weeks or so though. Doesn't seem to be worsening.