Dual Flush and Single Flush (Pines)

[Grant Bowie]

Where do allepo pines fit im very new to pines an have been trianing them like my other trees it seems to be doing ok or im just lucky

Don't know for sure yet but i am experimenting on one this year. No candle prune for this one this year as it is in poor health.

Grant

[Grant Bowie]

It is now 'mid-late December' so it is time to try out Ryan's techniques for pines.
Here's a red pine that I think is sufficiently advanced to warrant the technique.

red pine 2013 12 before.JPG

note that the candles have well and truly opened out on this one.
All new growth have been cut off about 6mm above the base and needles removed to leave just 8-10 pairs on each shoot.

red pine 2013 12 after.JPG

This one is a black pine. Not yet very well developed but might benefit from this technique.

black pine 2013 12 before.JPG

black pine 2013 12 after.JPG

Now to wait and see what happens over the next couple of years.

I did mine (black and Red) about 4 weeks ago and they are going well. The Red pine is much slower than the Blacks .

Grant

[Grant Bowie]

I went and hacked off all my new JBP candles on the weekend too...

I did look through all the instructions and couldn't find any info about where to cut the candles!
I think in most cases my cuts are flush to the base rather than your prescribed 6mm!?!

Wonder what the impact of this will be....?

I was taught to cut square accross the candle and probably around 3mm stub left. If you cut flush or say 1 or 2mm you might damage the possibility for the emerging buds and if too big; say 6mm or bigger; you can use up too much energy from the tree.

So a younger tree would tolerate it OK but it might slow down an older pine. Also depends on the individual vigour of the tree.

It is important that you are consistent over the entire tree so that all points are equal.

Grant

PS.I will post some photos later of the current stage of bud growth on my Black and Red pines.

[shibui]

Bonsai Beginner. Candles with bare base is normal on pines. Some others have the same sort of growth but usually there will be a mix of really strong bare base candles and some smaller ones with needles nearly to the base. The trees I have posted have been pruned for several years and have had needles pulled to redistribute the energy so most candles are equally strong (or weak?) I still feed them similar to yours.

Boics: I think it depends on what is below the candle. Cutting flush may stop the base of the candle from forming buds but if there are still needles below they will usually produce buds. That is the difference between this 'maintenance' pruning and 'development' pruning. For trees that are still thickening and developing I will leave shoots to grow freely for a full year or more then cut back to the lowest needles to get back budding These trees have had that and now ready to move to the next stage so ne w technique.
Grant: I think you are right about 3mm stub. My 6mm is probably an overestimation. most of my stubs somewhere between 2 and 6mm but in the past, even longer stubs just die back to the new buds formed at the base.
Looking forward to pics of other pines pruned this or other ways.

[CodyDixon]

Grant,
My notes say Sinle flush species only produce 1 lot of buds per year. (I assume) even if you prune them?? eg Scots pine, Mugho pine White pine
Multi Flush species can produce a second set of buds (if the spring ones are removed?) eg Black pine, Red pine, Ponderosa pine

To get back budding on single flush species -
yr 1 allow candles to open and grow strongly. The branches are solar panels. they absorb sunlight energy that feeds the roots and set up an energy path. Branches with good growth are successful (from tree point of view) so tree will try to make more buds on those branches to harvest more energy (and as backups in case of damage to the outer end of the branch??)
yr 2 Allow new candles to open then prune to leave 2pairs of needles on new growth.

Maintenance pruning of single flush species - pinch candles while growth is still soft to get new buds to form from the remaining soft tissue.

Multi flush species -
I have no notes on getting back budding on multi flush species.

maintenance schedule: to produce small needles, keep inner buds healthy and prevent tree growing bigger.
Spring - fertilise well.
Summer - stop fertilising a few weeks? (I missed the discussion on how long) before decandling.
Mid - late Dec - Remove ALL candles, even unopened ones (tip only of these??) then pluck needles so that all shoots have about equal number of needles which will be about 8-10 pairs of needles.
Over summer new buds will form. Allow new buds to open and harden - indicated by change of colour and needles become firmly attached - before recommence fertilizing to strengthen the tree.
Autumn - select shoots - thin to leave only v forks (2 shoots at any place) Stronger terminal shoots will have grown strongly and taken energy which will have kept inner buds smaller - remove strong terminal shoots leaving smaller ones as new leaders to stop elongation of branches.


Ryan did stress that whatever pruning schedule you try it will take at least a couple of years to produce good results so stick with 1 technique for several years before giving up and trying somethging different.

Thanks for sharing detailed information about the flush species.. I am working on them and with the post information I will be able to maintain them well.

[badabing888]

Hi

@shibu

Would that time schedule also apply to perth?

i could be getting mixed up but have also been told to decandle last week of jan , first week of feb? any perthies know the best timing?

Regards

Dan

[thoglette]

I am not sure where he put Radiata but I would presume in the dual flush category.

I seem to recall at least two flushes last year (I've some ex-green-box Christmas trees in my stock area)

[Grant Bowie]

I am not sure where he put Radiata but I would presume in the dual flush category.

I seem to recall at least two flushes last year (I've some ex-green-box Christmas trees in my stock area)

Yes, they are just like a leaky toilet! They keep flushing.

Grant

[CodyDixon]

Grant,
My notes say Sinle flush species only produce 1 lot of buds per year. (I assume) even if you prune them?? eg Scots pine, Mugho pine White pine
Multi Flush species can produce a second set of buds (if the spring ones are removed?) eg Black pine, Red pine, Ponderosa pine

To get back budding on single flush species -
yr 1 allow candles to open and grow strongly. The branches are solar panels. they absorb sunlight energy that feeds the roots and set up an energy path. Branches with good growth are successful (from tree point of view) so tree will try to make more buds on those branches to harvest more energy (and as backups in case of damage to the outer end of the branch??)
yr 2 Allow new candles to open then prune to leave 2pairs of needles on new growth.

Maintenance pruning of single flush species - pinch candles while growth is still soft to get new buds to form from the remaining soft tissue.

Multi flush species -
I have no notes on getting back budding on multi flush species.

maintenance schedule: to produce small needles, keep inner buds healthy and prevent tree growing bigger.
Spring - fertilise well.
Summer - stop fertilising a few weeks? (I missed the discussion on how long) before decandling.
Mid - late Dec - Remove ALL candles, even unopened ones (tip only of these??) then pluck needles so that all shoots have about equal number of needles which will be about 8-10 pairs of needles.
Over summer new buds will form. Allow new buds to open and harden - indicated by change of colour and needles become firmly attached - before recommence fertilizing to strengthen the tree.
Autumn - select shoots - thin to leave only v forks (2 shoots at any place) Stronger terminal shoots will have grown strongly and taken energy which will have kept inner buds smaller - remove strong terminal shoots leaving smaller ones as new leaders to stop elongation of branches.


Ryan did stress that whatever pruning schedule you try it will take at least a couple of years to produce good results so stick with 1 technique for several years before giving up and trying somethging different.

Thanks for sharing detailed information about the flush species.. I am working on them and with the post information I will be able to maintain them well.

[Lane]

How have people found their pines after following this technique for the last couple of years?