General Bonsai Branch Prune v's Best Horticultural Practices

[Kevin]

Hello Everyone,

I know a young fellow that has been schollared in Horticulture and Arboriculture and has worked tirelessly for about 30 years within these vocations and he will tell you exactly as the resident Wiki Pruning Master Mr Brent Walston declares @ http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/pruning2.htm

"Then get a college text on Plant Physiology. I don't think it matters a whole lot which one, but wade through it. You might only get through one page at a time on the crapper in the morning, that's what I do, but read it at a rate that allows you to understand and apply what you are learning to actual growth in plants"

This young bloke reckons that's exactly how he learnt too - basically Plant Physiology].

Well, after 20 odd years, this young fella discovers that pruning bonsai is different to Best Horticultural Practices and Plant Physiology (BHP & PP) - he recently learnt that his Bonsai Chinese Elms he's been tending to quietly down the back paddock have succumbed to major branch diseases and now his bonsai are firewood.

Look at the photos, you can see where his old prunes were performed at the branch collars as per BHP & PP and on the right you can see the technique for Bonsai Branch Pruning. Also see the disease that has set in due to his pruning methods.



How can this be explained?

Thanks

Kevin

[treeman]

I can see dead tissue at the base of the right part of the branch which was pruned ''bonsai style'' The rot appears to me to have entered from the base of the branch as it is in the heartwood. I don't think it was the difference between pruning to the collor or pruning flush which made the difference in this case. Even pruning to leave a long budless stump rarely leads to disease attacking the branch it is attatched to.
Without knowing the exact circumstaces, it seems to me that this dieback and rot was caused by severe carving of a week tree and poor follow up care not the pruning of small branches.

[Jow]

I would say all the problems stem from the aggressive carving at the trunk not the small pruning cuts.

[Kevin]

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Hello Everyone,

Thank-you Mike (Treeman) and Jow

Your comments are invaluable to me.

Seriously – Why is Bonsai Pruning different to BHP?

Bonsai prune is recessed below existing bark lines “for fast heal of wound.”

BHP is prune to branch shoulder.

I have loved bonsai for several decades however, due to family, mortgage, work, health, etc… my commitment to maintaining them was unfortunately NOT BASED UPON BEST BONSAI PRACTICE.

My PAST bonsai maintenance regime has been based upon my knowledge of BHP – Specifically Pruning techniques taught to Apprentices today - Practiced today - Proven to be successful for at least the past 30 years (on big trees).

NOW I have more time to spend on my favourite hobby – Bonsai. I have learnt so much in the past 5 weeks and loving every second of learning my Bonsai CORRECTLY. The knowledge possessed within this forum is incredible. I honestly feel privileged and honoured to be learning from the wealth of information you people have inputted and your practical experiences are… I am jealous. I would like to be an apprentice of AusBonsai, if you will have me – please.

Really the question is irrelevant NOW, although your knowledgeable input would satisfy my ever curious mind.

My problem is (WAS) particularly with the elms due to their prolific budding. Some areas of the trees were basically covered in nodes from pruning on top of the same spot for years – as mentioned, to the branch collar of each limb.

Yes, Mike, I agree with your statement about the dead wood, I cannot say I have seen it myself. I have cut / pruned 100,000’s of trees. The elms nodes when removed had approx. 80% of dead wood underneath.

And yes, the BONSAI CUTS are not BHP either - rushed for photo shoot, no make-up and very good lens.

With my new found knowledge and purposely Bonsai crafted and friendly tools, although not the right time (maybe), it doesn’t matter – my Elms were sick.

I actually thought I had a secondary fungal attack caused from years of mismanagement – being incorrectly pruned. Every old node removed from the elms had rot within the heartwood.

Anyway, I knew exactly what it was when I put the cutters through each area, and yes the rot travelled through the heartwood and into moisture retaining areas of the trunks – the branch clefts. I could literally pinch areas of the main trunk and remove with 2 fingers. The first thing I said was - I have seen and smelt this disease a few times before - Fungal bark rot. There’s a thread in here somewhere confirming the topic (I think – read so much lately).

The damage was caused by cultural mismanagement of the elms over several decades – predominately (if not solely) due to incorrect pruning techniques.

Hence my original question to everyone – BHP are put aside when pruning a bonsai is involved?

Prune a real tree as instructed in Bonsai techniques and you would be walking home or sued.

Or have I also been culturally mismanaged for several decades?

Please don't hold back - i have broad shoulders - i need to know your honest opinions - please.

I am shattered, but will survive.

Photos attached - your opinion to my original question would be grateful, please.

P.S. - What now? Ground layer the trunks after fungal removal, for several forest versions? Opinions welcome, please.

Thanks

Kevin.

[NAHamilton]

These are my favourite posts and I haven't even read Kevin's reply yet. I'll sit back and wait for the lesson, as do many on this site. I've not much to say but a lot to learn and appreciate everyone's time exerted.
Cheers,
Nigel

[treeman]

1. 2003-12-8 DSCN1004.jpg

_DSC3937-2.jpg

_DSC3920-2.jpg

_DSC3921-2.jpg

1. 2015-10-17 _DSC3398-2.jpg

2013-4-16 DSC_0019.jpg

2015-10-20 _DSC3458.jpg

Hello Everyone,

Thank-you Mike (Treeman) and Jow

Your comments are invaluable to me.

Seriously – Why is Bonsai Pruning different to BHP?

Bonsai prune is recessed below existing bark lines “for fast heal of wound.”

BHP is prune to branch shoulder.

I have loved bonsai for several decades however, due to family, mortgage, work, health, etc… my commitment to maintaining them was unfortunately NOT BASED UPON BEST BONSAI PRACTICE.

My PAST bonsai maintenance regime has been based upon my knowledge of BHP – Specifically Pruning techniques taught to Apprentices today - Practiced today - Proven to be successful for at least the past 30 years (on big trees).

NOW I have more time to spend on my favourite hobby – Bonsai. I have learnt so much in the past 5 weeks and loving every second of learning my Bonsai CORRECTLY. The knowledge possessed within this forum is incredible. I honestly feel privileged and honoured to be learning from the wealth of information you people have inputted and your practical experiences are… I am jealous. I would like to be an apprentice of AusBonsai, if you will have me – please.

Really the question is irrelevant NOW, although your knowledgeable input would satisfy my ever curious mind.

My problem is (WAS) particularly with the elms due to their prolific budding. Some areas of the trees were basically covered in nodes from pruning on top of the same spot for years – as mentioned, to the branch collar of each limb.

Yes, Mike, I agree with your statement about the dead wood, I cannot say I have seen it myself. I have cut / pruned 100,000’s of trees. The elms nodes when removed had approx. 80% of dead wood underneath.

And yes, the BONSAI CUTS are not BHP either - rushed for photo shoot, no make-up and very good lens.

With my new found knowledge and purposely Bonsai crafted and friendly tools, although not the right time (maybe), it doesn’t matter – my Elms were sick.

I actually thought I had a secondary fungal attack caused from years of mismanagement – being incorrectly pruned. Every old node removed from the elms had rot within the heartwood.

Anyway, I knew exactly what it was when I put the cutters through each area, and yes the rot travelled through the heartwood and into moisture retaining areas of the trunks – the branch clefts. I could literally pinch areas of the main trunk and remove with 2 fingers. The first thing I said was - I have seen and smelt this disease a few times before - Fungal bark rot. There’s a thread in here somewhere confirming the topic (I think – read so much lately).

The damage was caused by cultural mismanagement of the elms over several decades – predominately (if not solely) due to incorrect pruning techniques.

Hence my original question to everyone – BHP are put aside when pruning a bonsai is involved?

Prune a real tree as instructed in Bonsai techniques and you would be walking home or sued.

Or have I also been culturally mismanaged for several decades?

Please don't hold back - i have broad shoulders - i need to know your honest opinions - please.

I am shattered, but will survive.

Photos attached - your opinion to my original question would be grateful, please.

P.S. - What now? Ground layer the trunks after fungal removal, for several forest versions? Opinions welcome, please.

Thanks

Kevin.

Kevin, I don't know where to start! Probably the beginning is best. We need to consider a few things. Firstly, if your tree is not in perfect health (whether by infrequent enough repotting or some other stress) it's ability to heal wounds and fight off infection will be severely impared. It is possible that when you pruned the branches to the collar, it did not have the energy to cover the wound quickly. ( A cut of 10 to 15mm should ideally be completely callused over within 12 to 18 months) This may have then lead to a fungal infection setting up in the exposed wood. It is also possible to have the infection progress down the heartwood while the initial cut site does eventually heal over and you are left with a seemingly healthy branch until one day you notice that it is dying a slow death.
So, it is essential that your tree is kept in peak condition if it is to tolerate pruning well. Also, although I don't often bother, it would be wise to seal the cuts well with a wax or some kind of compound to keep any potential infection from getting a foothold.
To keep your tree in good health, it should be repotted every year until it a couple of decades old. You could get away with 2 years but after that the vigor will begin to decline. Also it is a mistake to hold back on the fertilizing in the hope of reducing or slowing down the rate of growth. The trick is to feed heavily and cut more often.
Having said that, without hilding your tree in my hands, I can't offer a better suggestion than cleaning as much dead material from the tree as possible and in the correct season, removing the tree from its pot and washing the roots completely free of all the old soil before pruning the roots well and repotting into a healthy new p/mix.
(And get some new Chinese Elms going too)

[Kevin]

Thanks Mike,

I appreciate your time and comments.

Good / Poor subject title? Poor - just excuses for frustrations - the reality is - as you said and i realise / accept - POOR MANAGEMENT PRACTICES has ultimately caused my conundrum. Bugger - i must and do accept the truth before moving forward.

I agree, the elms and others have suffered through lack of necessary / required maintenance over the past few years, due to my own health rehabs. I have managed to keep the essential maintenance regular - fertiliser, water and pot on - not root prune, nor correctional pruning. Constantly telling myself - one more season of essentials before the big TLC and more BEST BONSAI PRACTICES or at least far better with time for self educating.

On top of the secondary fungal problems, discussed earlier. A nasty pathogen also sweep through my entire garden and even myself from handling everything and exploring into and identifying issues that were blatantly in front of me. Thankfully i identified the bonsai issues early, then acted quickly and thoroughly enough with the sanitations, I even surprised myself, good old bleach and hard fast yakka. I think i have managed to maybe save my bonsai from the tool handle shop

As you have mentioned - I would be happier to have had the pots sterilized and freshly sterilized new mix for the roots. But not now. Too much shock for the old boys. I will now stop the radical / too drastic actions and sit through the seasons. Several months for the Elms and about 7 - 8 months for the figs.

Good old TLC and patience. Then hopefully we will all live another year. Contemplation, learning and discovery is planned for me.

I'll let you know if i'll be making tool handles or repotting in several months time.

Just a quick general question - for decades, without all the knowledge of the pre-ordained styling techniques - All i have ever desired is for my bonsai to replicate their natural occurring growth habits. In an above photo there should be a PJ Ficus planted into a hollow log. Attempting to create the semi / cool climate rainforest strangler fig depicted in coastal areas from Newcastle to Nowra. Will that work for traditional or Aussie bonsai style if kept under 90cm?

Thanks again Mike, your input has helped tremendously.

Thanks also for all other comments.

Kevin

[treeman]

water and pot on - not root prune,

That right there is the source of your problem without any doubt. Root pruning and leaving the centre of the root ball as is year after year is an invitation to all kinds of problems!

In an above photo there should be a PJ Ficus planted into a hollow log. Attempting to create the semi / cool climate rainforest strangler fig depicted in coastal areas from Newcastle to Nowra. Will that work for traditional or Aussie bonsai style if kept under 90cm?

No reason why not but the wood will eventually rot away...just as the stranglers host does in the wild.

[Kevin]

Thanks Mike,

Much appreciated.

Kevin