Advice on a Chinese elm

[ben17487]

Hey all, I'm scratching my head over what to do with this one, it was my first tree, a gift from my girlfriend which got me into it all.
But it has so much going wrong with it..

I hate the cork screw but even if I remove it it still has a huge reverse tapered section.
Ive done nothing with it from the beginning except trim it and try to hide the twist.

Should I just chop it entirely and start from scratch or anyone got some ideas of how I can make something of it?

I'm considering making it a root over rock on the next repot.









Cheers,
Ben

[shibui]

Code: Select all

I hate the cork screw but even if I remove it it still has a huge reverse tapered section.

In the words of Tom Yamamoto " You have ploblem? Cut him off - no more ploblem"

If there is nothing much going for the tree just cut it off and start again. Elms will shoot readily from any stump so you can cut it anywhere you think looks ok and it will grow new shoots. From what I can see in the photos I'd probably cut just below the lowest branch. That will get rid of both your problems in one go. It will then be up to you to manage the new growth to achieve something better. While you are at it I'd cut off those roots above the ground. They will only make the trunk thick at that pont so you'll have reverse taper problems again but lower down. Hopefully there will be better roots below soil level.

I'm considering making it a root over rock on the next repot.

What would that solve? You'd just have the same poor tree on a rock

anyone got some ideas of how I can make something of it?

Hard to say from this distance. the trunk has very little of value but I can only see the bits you have given us to look at. There may be other angles where it looks ok but I can't see so can't offer advice.

[ben17487]

Thanks for the advice shibui, I thought that may have been the only really option.
The root over rock suggestion was merely that I'd like to start one, may build the trunk instead as you said it is rather uninteresting.

Cheers,
Ben

[shibui]

Root over rock brings a whole lot more problems in getting the roots and rock looking good. Every new feature that you add to a bonsai - root over rock; multi trunk, etc - multiplies the difficulty of getting a good bonsai at the end. No point in starting with an already flawed trunk By all means grow root over rock bonsai but it is hard enough already to get all the aspects - rock, roots, trunk, branches looking good and in harmony so at least start off with something that does not already have problems.

I would be happy to cut a Chinese elm now if you decide to go ahead with the decapitation. Otherwise leave it until late winter/ early spring

[gerald randall]

When I struggle with a tree, I tend to put it in the ground and allow it to grow for a year. It improves the taper and plenty of new branches to work with. It will also improve the cut marks on the tree and improve nebari and bark.

I don't think cutting this down will make much difference. I would first rather field grow it for a bit.

Cheers.

[Ray M]

Hi Ben,
I wholeheartedly agree with Shibui. It will actually be quicker to develop a good tree by doing a big chop. Being a Chinese Elm it will respond quite well.
I would do a slip pot into a larger pot. Feed it with Seasol for a week and then do the chop. As Shibui mentioned, you will need to manage the tree after doing the chop. You need to choose a new leader when you get new shoots and don't let the area where you choped it fatten up to prevent a knob or reverse taper accruing. Keep the Seasol up to it after doing the chop.

Chinese Elm -2.jpg

Regards Ray

[kcpoole]

What about a chop just above the branch above where Ray suggested?
That way you might be able to use that branch as the new apex too.

Ken

[ben17487]

Thanks very much for the feedback everyone, shibui and Ray's ideas are what I'm likely to go with.

If I do as you suggest ken, it will leave scaring on both sides of the trunk.. Will this be a huge issue? I've somewhat witnessed the pace of healing on these trees and it does seem fairly quick.. Could be an interesting direction for the tree.

I'm also not super informed of how to style after a trunk chop, should I leave one shoot from the cut area and remove others that may pop up?

Cheers,
Ben

[shibui]

I'm also not super informed of how to style after a trunk chop, should I leave one shoot from the cut area and remove others that may pop up?

There is no one correct answer to this. It depends what you are after. For most styles just leave 2 shoots. 1 becomes the future trunk. the other is grown as a branch. BUT... If you want broom style you usually keep several shoots to give multi trunk canopy (note that broom style usually has a straight vertical trunk from roots to branches) BUT... if the trunk chop is too low for a first branch there is no point keeping a branch so just let one shoot grow as an extension of the existing trunk.
Try to have some vision of what you expect to grow and work towards it.
You can always change your mind later and prune/ cut/ grow again later, esp if first choice does not seem to be working

[ben17487]

Hey guys I ended up attaching this one to a rock just to give it a go...

My intended design at this stage.





Anyway the tree is beginning to break buds and I'm wondering if now is the best time to chop the trunk to begin the new direction.
Can anyone advise the best timing?

I also have a bunch of CE root cutting from a few different trees that I'm hoping will sprout, but I'm unsure of how the cut should be treated. I put cut paste on some and nothing on others. The ones with cut paste I'm worried the buds will be blocked and the ones without seem to be drying out quite a bit.. Any advice on that would be helpful too

Thanks very much!
Ben

[Ryceman3]

Hi Ben,
Worry not about buds on your root cuttings being blocked by the cut paste - they will grow right through it... I have a few starting to come through now just to prove it. They seem to take a bit longer to kick off than a standard cutting, so give them a bit more time...
I'm guessing your elm doesn't lose its leaves over winter huh? A trunk chop is ideal during the dormant period (winter - no leaves etc...) - which is pretty close to ending so get in there. That's my Good luck.


PS: nice sketch!

[ben17487]

Thanks very much ryceman
This one was still growing half way through winter.. Only just started slowing down a few weeks before I repotted. I have others that lost almost all their leaves though, every tree is different I guess!
Thanks for clearing up my questions!

[Andrew Legg]

Damn the man can draw!!!

[ben17487]

Haha thank you Andrew, I've a had a little practice over the years

[Raymond]

That drawing... said in a slightly sophisticated British Accent "Oh Bra-vo"...