Golden Rule/s!?

[treeman]

Looking at Beano's olive,
viewtopic.php?f=130&t=24379
I thought about this as a good starting point to consider....and often overlooked.

Do not allow more than 25mm of straight un-tapered section on any part of a tree which is 150mm in height. Preferably less in the branches
Do not allow more than 50mm of straight un-tapered section on any part of a tree which is 300mm in height. Preferably less in the branches
Do not allow more than 75mm of straight un-tapered section on any part of a tree which is 600mm or above in height.
This excludes formal upright types of course.
There is always flexibility and exceptions which should be judged on a case by case basis.
If you follow those rules, you are on the right track. If you don't.......I predict possible problems down the line.
If you don't care, disregard all this..

If you have some rules which you stick by, please include them. I want to know them too! Wiring, cultivation whatever!

[Keep Calm and Ramify]

Mr Treeman,
I'll jump in here for sure....
You mention.."right on track"... but of achieving what exactly? What is the pinnacle, when do you know you've made "it" & who has the right to decide?
What problems may be "down the line" for the artist, if they don't follow these, or any other rules?
Isn't the journey of exploration, experimentation, and FUN far more important, than what might be "down the line" or dare I say, even the end result?

Everyone practices Bonsai differently, & reaps individual rewards accordingly - And that's a GOOD THING!

I too would love to hear others thoughts & views on this, as I feel this thread could open some eyes that have previously been 'wired' shut for fear of "breaking the mould"?

All the best & with respect..
Kcar

[melbrackstone]

Mel throws out all of her attempts....

back to the drawing board!



(Actually, I might have a couple that fit)

[Beano]

I mean, I do love reinventing the wheel, but that olive clump is nowhere near finished. I've done as suggested with the material I have and am happy to work to develop it that way. Before it was a clump with branches in all directions doing nothing in a pot.

[melbrackstone]

I'm going to write these down and put the note out in my work area... It'll be a good reminder.

Thanks Mike, I really do need something like this to help me add character to the plants I have.

[Keep Calm and Ramify]

I'm going to write these down and put the note out in my work area... It'll be a good reminder.

Thanks Mike, I really do need something like this to help me add character to the plants I have.

I would think the opposite Mel, Careful adding too much "rule" character - you might lose personality.

[melbrackstone]

I reckon they're great guidelines....never going to be a rule follower, but as a reminder to keep adding angles, I'm happy to do it!

[bonsaisensation]

good one Michael, the one rule i stick to with forest planting:
the 3Ds (Different heights, Different thickness and Different spacings). often when one sticks to the "rules", your end results won't be too far off "good".
this is how i see it: "rules are there to help and guide us in situations where we are a bit lost and cannot decide what to do". but if you love certain features in a tree, let's say" i absolutely love the straight and taperless section in the trunk/branch", then by all means don't cut it back.
Michael's rules lead to a tree with taper and movement. i grow trees by this rule as well.
another favourite of mine: grow your branches to form a diamond profile, not fan shaped.


regards

Tien

[Nate.bonsai]

I would think the opposite Mel, Careful adding too much "rule" character - you might lose personality.[/quote]

Treeman deals with that when he says always subject to case-by-case assessment.

Whilst I agree that too many rules which are too rigid often stifles development and creativity, I think that Treeman's suggestions are pretty innocuous and not at all overly prescriptive.

Don't just push back on 'rules' out of principle. Many home truths or aesthetic guidelines have evolved purely because they work in many/most instances - and there is still PLENTY of room for creativity and individualism.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[shibui]

I also support Mike's guidelines. I find straight, untapered trunks and branches are very difficult to incorporate into a good bonsai.
However, sometimes that is the material we have to work with and creativity and innovation can occasionally overcome those limitations. Slight change of angle or viewing angle can sometimes make a big change to the visual appearance.
Occasionally other aspects of a tree will overpower a few otherwise faults so if you come across a tree that has a small straight section but is otherwise stunning don't pass by just because Mike said so.
Technique can sometimes overcome some faults.
Even thicker wood can be bent using advanced techniques but bending a trunk or branch will not produce taper.
Shari can be used to disguise lack of taper. Even though the trunk is still straight and has the same thickness the contrast between live and dead wood can trick the eye into seeing taper and possible even movement if done correctly.

I hope everyone has fun attempting to overcome 'faults' using creativity and good technique. Even if you don't pull it off every time you'll learn a lot trying.

[Beano]

I can't tell you how many perfectly good branches I've rejected and cut off because they didn't fit in with the one left, one back, one right spoke pattern of branch placement up a trunk from my chosen tree front. I think that rule is nice but I can't seem to achieve branches where I want them, even on swamp cypress which are suppose to throw buds everywhere. I especially think that rule doesn't matter as much when I see experts on here without that perfect branch pattern in their otherwise spectacular trees. It would be nice to have perfect rule conforming bonsai but sometimes you have to work with what you've got. Also sometimes the lack of rule following is temporary until the right time/branch/trunk opportunity comes along.

[dansai]

I can't tell you how many perfectly good branches I've rejected and cut off because they didn't fit in with the one left, one back, one right spoke pattern of branch placement up a trunk from my chosen tree front

When I was first got interested in Bonsai I had been doing work experience at a nursery specialising in Natives as part of my Tafe course. The owner allowed me to go through his reject pile (plants that had started to decline due to a need for repotting) and I took the lot. I then went through and chopped all the branches off that didn't fit the left/right/back rule and ended up with a bunch of skinny, taperless sticks in pots with minimal branches. Pity I didn't chuck them all in the ground!!

Another guideline I'm starting to make a "rule" is sort the roots first. I don't have access to Bonsai stock very often so usually get nursery stock. A lot of this is cutting grown and tend to have very bad root systems where they twist, turn and cross very close to the trunk from being struck in plugs and then thrown into larger pots without touching the roots. I used to start selecting branches, trim and do initial styling, then grow on for a bit When it came time to repot I would find that surface roots often came up from a few cm's below the soil line and usually a big mess.

So now I check out the roots first. It I find good roots and its not a good time to repot I will start to look at the rest of the tree. If the roots are bad I either plant in the ground with the idea of layering off the trunk when I'm happy with it, or pot it deeper into a pot (either a deeper pot or chop off the bottom of the root ball) and set a ground layer. Once I have my roots I'll then look at the tree.

[dansai]

As for Treemans OP, I think what he is suggesting does not mean you cannot be creative or produce different trees, but rather it gives you good tapered trunk and branches that you can work with. You can still wire to the shaped you want, allow branches to ascend up, pull them down, etc., etc.

Bonsai is not a race. It takes time. Some conifers (if grown well for 20 or so years but not "styled") may be turned into "instant" Bonsai, but most other species need to be grown into Bonsai. As Mike has said many times, have a plan, one that looks to the future of the tree, and work towards it.

[peterb]

Better to spend 20 yrs developing a bonsai with good taper and movement , than rushing forward with a mediocre tree and 20 yrs later regretting it . I'm with treemam here.
Cheers
Peterb

[Keep Calm and Ramify]

Do these trees now lack merit?
Are they suddenly now not so beautiful & less awe inspiring?

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