Black pine

[shibui]

How quick will Japanese Black Pine grow?
I have some in the grow beds. A couple of them had plenty of growth down low so I did not prune them this year to allow them maximum growth and thickening. The new shoots seem to be even stronger than usual.

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The whole tree is now 1.5 m from ground to tip

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The larger candle grew to 80cm - measured from the base of this season's growth to the current tip

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and is now 2.5cm thick at the base

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Here's the base of the tree. A smaller trunk which I have pruned to maintain needles and growing tips closer to the trunk will probably become the main trunk when the larger sacrifice branch is removed.

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It would still be possible to prune this larger trunk down low because you can still see healthy needles right down near the base and there's even a couple of small side branches there.

The smaller tree only extended 70cm this spring and 2cm thick

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All that growth and the thickness of these 2 shoots will have added almost the same thickening to the trunks below the new shoots so I guess I've added at least 2 cm to the base of these 2 pines this spring.

[Ryceman3]

Great post shibui.
My experience with JBP is limited to say the least, but that growth seems phenomenal. I have one (in a training pot) with a sacrifice but I'd guess its extension is much less than half that.
Do you think the growth is due to ground growing, fert, other care/conditions or maybe a bit of all of these?
Mine was decandled in Dec (not the sacrifice though obviously) and therefore has had no fert since, so I guess I'm not comparing apples with apples... in any event - impressive growth rate there.

[Tambrand]

plant trough.jpg

Over on this side, the growth seems to be related to the aggressiveness
of the seed ------ so I use the guideline of between 76 to 91 cm branch extension for 2.5 cm in trunk thickness.

This is for trees in clay pots at 26 cm wide and about 8 cm deep.

Then I chop back down to 8 - 10 cm and restart for the first , second and third branches.
Occurs around the 4th year.

Using information from Bonsai Today , but the soil is only
5 mm silica based gravel [ have a sand blasting company that supplies it by the bag ]
and aged compost [ a blend and kept in a covered plastic barrel after sifting for up to a year, just moist.
this will allow the weed seed to grow and in the darkness die.]

Since I can luck out and get woody cuttings to root, I am testing the more vigourous
cuttings, in a colander in my growing plant trough.
Trough is approximately 300 cm long x 30 cm wide x 61 cm deep.
Soil was what they call top soil , a loam, and improved for drainage by the addition
of 8 mm silica based gravel and aged compost for moisture retention.
The base is concrete and the back has pipes for water to run out.

Normally grows natives very well.
I have included an image of J.B.Pine in the trough above.
Laters.
Tambrand

[Tambrand]

JBP 4.jpg

Here is an example of a 4 year old in a clay pot mentioned in my previous post.
Until
Tambrand

[shibui]

Definitely the ground Ryceman. I often get 50cm shoots on trees in larger pots like poly boxes but trees in pots usually only give 30cm extension.
With this tree it was the thickness of the new shoot that impressed me. 2.5 cm thick shoot in just a few months is impressive

Thanks for the contribution Tambrand. Some of your techniques are definitely worth considering over here. your 70-90 extension for 2.5cm thickness tallies with what I have seen here in this tree but do you get that growth in just one shoot in spring or are you talking about growth of several years to get 2.5 cm thickness?
I would also be interested to hear your technique for growing pine cuttings. I can sometimes get cuttings to root but not reliably every time.

[Tambrand]

Hello Shibui,

it takes one year for the shoot to reach the length.
But as I stated, this will only happen with a few trees.

We used to get all of our seed from a pack, that came from Japan.
Sold by Dallas Bonsai and I believe Bonsai Boy, [ both on Amazon US.]
The packs had 30 to 35 seeds. To germinate [ over the years say 1987 to 2012 ]
all that was done, was to soak the seeds for 24 hours and plant.

You would get 25 or so germinating, and about 5 or 6 that grew faster, than
the others.

The tree in the image [ clay pot ] shown was given a larger and slightly deeper
pot to see, if it would then grow more long extensions. [ done 2nd Jan 2018 ]
Will let you know how it goes.

As to cuttings ---------- this is an accidental variation on your information given
some years ago, here on AusBonsai.
I mistakenly used hardwood instead of the softwood cuttings in your article.

I get 1 rooting per 5 cuttings.
This is with a powder type rooting powder, now testing a liquid version.
So it is just your technique, and the soil is a commercial peat moss / perlite
blend from Canada, and I add in 5 mm gravel to improve the drainage.
Then leave alone in an area with sunlight from 7 a.m until 1 or 2 p,m
Takes some months and I just keep removing the dead ones.

The container is a round styro food container around 12 cm wide and 6 cm filled with soil,
though the container is 8 cm deep.

There is a 6 year J,B.pine contest [ to duplicate the work on Bonsai Today ] just started this
year on BonsaiNut, you may find it interesting to keep an eye out.
Laters.
Tambrand

japanese-black-pine-bonsai-tree-seeds.jpg

[Tambrand]

Just to let you know, the last situation we have with the J.B.pine,
is shortening the needles.

It has been suggested, because we have no winter, the needles will stay
long.
More tests.
Until.
Tambrand

[Ryceman3]

There is a 6 year J,B.pine contest [ to duplicate the work on Bonsai Today ] just started this
year on BonsaiNut, you may find it interesting to keep an eye out.
Laters.
Tambrand

Thanks for the heads up on this too Tambrand, I will keep an eye out - I read a bit about it after your tip off and it sounds like a great concept.

Thanks shibui, I figured ground growing was the main ingredient... Now all I need to do is find some ground.

[Tambrand]

Ryceman3,

J.B.pine is a softwood as I understand it. The softwoods tend to thicken in colanders.
Can you get a read on Bonsai Today issues ?

There is a mention of the double and triple colander use.
It is supposed to enhance the coarseness of the surface roots as they travel to
the other colanders.
You could use technique as the top should respond as I mentioned above.

You will however need vigorous seed or cuttings.

Here is an example of growing to the tree to about 1 m, but no real trunk thickening.
Laters,
Tambrand

[badabing888]

whats the theory behind it growing to 1 meter without thickening vs a tree growing to 1 meter with thickening ?

[Tambrand]

Wood might be harder.
Laters.
Tambrand