Trident Maple [Ryceman3]

[Ryceman3]

Howdy all,

I picked this trident up from Shibui earlier this week (... I'm not sure if I should say that - after he sees what I have done to it he may not wish to have his name associated with it in any form! )
It needs a little attention on the roots but before I get onto a repot I gave it a bit of a chop back to help me define the trunk line and figure out some branch placement etc... I think I'm pretty happy with what I have finally settled on, there is still some decisions to be made and refinement to do but I feel it's a good start. The trunk from top to soil now stands at about 30cm - hopefully it can grow on nicely this spring and get better from here. I think from the photos a lot of people may wonder why the "left" is not the "front"... the answer : it is a possibility but in real life it doesn't look quite as good as the photo suggests (IMO anyway)! I think with what I have left I can watch it grow for a bit and then reconsider if I think I need to.

As usual, any input welcome.

[Ryceman3]

Repotted this trident today and was pretty pleased with it's progress below the soil over the last 12 months or so. I thought I'd updated this thread with pics of the root work I did last year but it appears not?
Anyway - here are a few pics of the roots and a photo from last year which helps to show how they have developed from what they were. I have re-applied the same technique (scrape back to cambium and rooting hormone) to see if I can get a few more roots developing over this growing season, next year I may try a root graft or two if/where required. I have repotted a tad low (as I did last year) to protect new root development from drying out as much as possible. Any advice/comments are welcome.

[MountainFrost]

Looking good! what sort of cut paste do you use?

[Ryceman3]

Looking good! what sort of cut paste do you use?

Hi MountainFrost,
I use Kiyonal, from what I can decipher from the label it appears to be mostly good for grafting etc. but as a sealer I have no issues with it and it does the job pretty nicely.

[boom64]

Well done Ryceman ,must be a great feeling to see results from all your hard work. Keep it up. . Cheers John.

[Ryceman3]

Well done Ryceman ,must be a great feeling to see results from all your hard work. Keep it up. . Cheers John.

Thanks John,
I've enjoyed watching it develop over the last 12 months,plenty to learn if you pay attention.I hope it continues (no reason it won't!) and I hope to keep learning.

[Ryceman3]

Another day, another trident project.
This one got cut back and then a root prune as required. There are plenty of roots, and more developing, but to give it an extra shove I decided to try my hand at a bit of root grafting in a couple of spots that are still looking a bit sparse and need development. Never done this before, but with a few of shibui's seedlings to play with, it was my mission today.

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I think I'm pretty happy with how they turned out. The contact between the tree and the grafted seedlings is nice and tight so with any luck all will turn out fine. Like I said, first time root grafting (it's not as easy as you think!) ... any feedback on how I might improve my technique always welcome.

[shibui]

Those root grafts look just right.
I hope no one in future needs to cut or saw through those spots though. Those nails are going to stay there when the seedlings grow over the heads. I usually leave the nails protruding so I can pull them out after the graft appears to have healed up. Nail trough some rubber or another small piece of wood if you need to put pressure on the seedling. Occasionally I get it wrong and pull the seedling out with the nail and more than once the nail has been too rusty and just breaks off.

Those seedlings now need to grow in order to thicken so the cambium layers make contact. The trick is not to let them get too big or the scar will be large when you cut off the stem.

I don't think you'll need it but

[malphon]

I have a newbie question...why did you graft the seedling onto the base for? Is it to thicken the base of the tree like a sacrificial branch?

[Chris Di Nola]

Great post Ryceman

[wrcmad]

They look good Ryceman .

I perform between 20 and 40 of these grafts every year, and it really helps with the development of the nebari.
For tridents, I have found a much higher success rate if the donor seedling is fully embedded in the parent trunk to a depth of at least the seedling thickness - or even slightly deeper.
It is hard to tell from your pics, but the first graft looks to be seated a little proud of the parent trunk? I have had grafts like this push out during the growing season.
The second graft looks perfect.
I fertilise like blazers during the growing season to get maximum growth on both the trunk and donor seedling, which usually results in a union that is more of engulfment.
Shibui is right about the nail head being engulfed - I use mapping pins so that the plastic head can be busted up if need be, leaving the pin to be pulled out when the graft has taken.
This year I am going to give these a try: httpss://store.bonsaitonight.com/collect ... ting-nails

Here is a before and after of some I have done before: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24451&p=245959&hili ... ft#p245976

Cheers, and good luck.

[Watto]

Thanks for the update and excellent progression.

[Ryceman3]

Cool, I'm happy to see that I have the seal of approval (the most part anyway) from both shibui and wrcmad. I am seriously appreciative of your feedback and tips/tricks - you're both very generous with your time and knowledge.

Those root grafts look just right.
I usually leave the nails protruding so I can pull them out after the graft appears to have healed up. Nail trough some rubber or another small piece of wood if you need to put pressure on the seedling.

Yep, makes sense ... something to remember for next time. I drove them in hard to get the contact but putting a buffer between would've been the smart option I didn't consider. I'm hoping I can maybe remove the head (the rest will have to stay) if required down the track.

Those seedlings now need to grow in order to thicken so the cambium layers make contact. The trick is not to let them get too big or the scar will be large when you cut off the stem.

I know this is like asking "how long is a piece of string?" but just a guestimate of how long before I can start to consider the graft succesful ... is there anything specific to look out for that indicates the graft is viable and the top is ready to be removed?

For tridents, I have found a much higher success rate if the donor seedling is fully embedded in the parent trunk to a depth of at least the seedling thickness - or even slightly deeper.

Thanks wrcmad. I made the second a little deeper because I wasn't sure if I had gone hard enough with the first, your comment confirms this. The first one is probably close to half way embedded, I guess if it does push away from the parent I can saddle up and have another go. Live and learn!

This year I am going to give these a try: httpss://store.bonsaitonight.com/collect ... ting-nails
Here is a before and after of some I have done before: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24451&p=245959&hili ... ft#p245976

I did remember the thread you posted above about half way through the grafting process, should really have done a revision before I started because both shibui and yourself had some golden points in there - but I think I had recollected most of it well enough! I'll be interested to see how those grafting nails work out, please post up when you give them a go!

Thanks to Chris and Watto for their encouragement too, hopefully next time I post up a progression on this thread it will be to show some succesful grafts in place.

[Ryceman3]

I have a newbie question...why did you graft the seedling onto the base for? Is it to thicken the base of the tree like a sacrificial branch?

Hi malphon and welcome to the forum! (I think it's your first post?)
The seedlings are being used to graft roots to the base of the trunk to get a more even spread. Think of it like being exactly the same as grafting a branch onto a tree, but when the graft takes you remove the top of the seedling (leaves, branches etc..) and keep the roots instead. This is one way of getting roots to fill in around the nebari if there are areas that are lacking. Hope that makes sense.

[shibui]

I have a newbie question...why did you graft the seedling onto the base for? Is it to thicken the base of the tree like a sacrificial branch?

We want our bonsai to look really old. One of the characteristics of older trees is that the roots start to show on the surface around the trunk. Usually, the older the tree the more roots you will see around the base.
Having roots all round the trunk makes the tree look more stable. Roots on one or 2 sides give the impression that the tree may topple over at some stage. Even if the viewer only sees this subconsciously they will mostly be more satisfied when they see a tree with radial roots all round than one with a one sided root display.
These surface roots on bonsai are called 'nebari' in Japanese.
Having plenty of roots all round the trunk also helps the trunk to flare out at the base. Flared base on trunks is another characteristic common to older trees so is valued in bonsai.

Where a bonsai does not have a good radial surface root system we can graft extra roots like Ryceman has done here. It is mostly to improve the look but will also have some influence on the base of the trunk.

I know this is like asking "how long is a piece of string?" but just a guestimate of how long before I can start to consider the graft succesful ... is there anything specific to look out for that indicates the graft is viable and the top is ready to be removed?

You are right that there's no real standard time for grafts to heal. Many will be ok by next winter but some of mine have taken 2 or even 3 years to grow enough to heal well when they did not grow very well due to poor care and/or competition from other roots of the host tree.
Look for the sides of the wounds rolling over and joining together, then leave it a bit longer to make sure.
The ones I did last winter now look pretty good and should be ready to cut. I'll try to remember to post some pics when I get round to those ones.