Fair call.Rory wrote: In a lot of ways Mike is like you are with Tokoname pots. He is critical, but appreciates a unique and different piece. Just like you would probably skew your nose up at a mass produced chinese pot that is factory produced with the same formula over and over.
I appreciate such an honest and dignified response.treeman wrote: I'm just as critical (believe me) if not more so, of my own trees which I have worked on for 30 years or so. Most of them have been formed with all the traditional techniques we have learned from the Japanese. Some of the younger deciduous stuff (10 years or so) are giving me more satisfaction than the older boring formulaic trees. They can't really be changed now, (or at least not without great difficulty) so I persist in the direction they are headed. For a while they may give a certain visual pleasure, but that is usually short lived simply because their future is so predictable. The ones I can change I am changing.
What do I think is good? Many, many things. Some of the Japanese conifer masterpieces are superb, some are downright repulsive to me now. Most are just plain tiresome and un-inspirational whereas 20 years ago I would probably have knelt down before them in awe.
When I was young I loved Ferraris, now they don't rate very highly. Taste changes and matures over time. Subtlety starts to have more weight and depth. Slickness and finish, less so. More shallow, less meaningful. Certainly less potential.
) tree and say to themselves, nah, bugga that, I'm gonna chop that last 40 years growth off to that tiny bud and start again, after all, it's my tree. A lot of givens i know. I have no idea 
I agree with all this Joe. As for personal taste, it's without question that it must fall back onto the decision of the individual. I'm certainly not trying to force my ideas onto others. I hope it doesn't seem that way! At the same time though we need to realize that we ALL have our own limitations and can only work within those limitations.Jow wrote:hi Mods, it might be worth splitting this thread as it is a fair way off track from the original post.... however.....
I've been thinking about this idea of looking toward and taking inspiration from nature.
I have a bunch of questions i'd love to chat through (perhaps over a beer at the convention) but one to get started is below.
It is impossible to replicate natural trees in bonsai. The very nature that we are making miniature versions is some level of abstracting the tree out in the 'wild'. This level of abstraction or omission carries through to many other facets of bonsai eg. less twigs then a full grown tree, different 'ratios' of trunk and taper, leaf size comparatively etc etc.
So even if trying to replicate nature there is a level of interpretation that the grower / artist (depending on your views of bonsai and art) does to the tree. Even if they are trying to make an exact scaled down train set model tree via bonsai it will never be a perfect copy. Some interpretation always has to happen.
Where do you see the acceptable line in the sand? As there is an unavoidable translation via the grower/artist into the bonsai where certain information is abstracted or honed back, how do you decide on when this point has been reached and how do you decide when it has been crossed? Does it not fall back to personal taste?
Holey Crap!!!!!!!!kez wrote: I have now had the pleasure of spending two full days with him, and I would spend a third at the drop of a hat
Here is what he helped me with To this I am happy for everybody to discuss the changes made to the above tree, for the better or worse, and where the styling sits in regards to cookie cutter versus appropriate for the tree
I had a blast, I like the trees, for me it was a day very well spent
Kerrin
The viewing angle definitely looks better but I'm a bit concerned with the condition of the tree?kez wrote:I'll throw my hat in the ring here with a bit of first hand experience
I asked Mauro on Wednesday how he felt about working on trees he knew had been on the hands of revered masters. His response to me came across as confidently humble and every bit what I would expect of a master
He said he feels no need to stamp his name on trees that he works on, if he doesnt believe that anything needs to be changed he will just do what needs to be done as routine maintenance, If the tree could be made better by more work then he would do what he felt needed to be done,
I asked if he felt like some professionals felt pressured or obligated to change a trees direction when working on it, as if not doing so would reflect poorly on the persons ability, and what impressed me the most is that he said that in this case the work of someone with an appropriate skill level will show through even with the most minor touches.
I have now had the pleasure of spending two full days with him, and I would spend a third at the drop of a hat
Here is what he helped me with To this We also worked on this little one I am happy for everybody to discuss the changes made to the above tree, for the better or worse, and where the styling sits in regards to cookie cutter versus appropriate for the tree
I had a blast, I like the trees, for me it was a day very well spent
Kerrin
