Chinese Elms - Seedling Progression

[MJL]

Howdy All,

Each year, from the Chinese Elm in my garden, self-sown seedlings pop up everywhere.

For the past five years - mirroring my interest in bonsai and knowing the Chinese Elm's adaptability to Bonsai, I collect the seedlings and grow them on in seed trays. Much like these that I collected - this photo below is from Dec 2017; I reckon they would have been collected the year before. My records were not great back then. Still aren't!

IMG_3519 (1).jpg

Around 2015, I planted a little grove in a pot - this photo below was again taken in 2017.

IMG_3518 (1).jpg

I now realise that I could get much thicker trunks (more quickly) if I put them in grow beds (and didn't restrict root growth like I have been). Alas, I did not know that back then and I quite like the fact that these seedlings are being nurtured from my garden; slowly, slowly catches the worm.

Then today - after what I consider the success of my Japanese Maple progression - where I combined two groups into one... see here viewtopic.php?f=104&t=25517 ...

...I decided to expand this Chinese Elm forest.

So - back to the workbench I went:

IMG_4959.jpg

And I reckon the result is Ok - there are trees/seedlings of around five years down to 1 year old.
Here's the front:

IMG_4960.jpg

And the back, the rocks are mainly to help bed down the soil and trees:

IMG_4963.jpg

I think it all looks pretty good. (Except for those that frown at me constantly putting gravel paths everywhere!)

Once again, thoughts are welcome and I'll keep you up to date on progress.

Cheers.

[MJL]

A couple more photos for good measure.
A slightly different elevation:

IMG_4961.jpg

And a little man for good measure:

IMG_4964.jpg

[KIRKY]

Personally I liked the original forest better imo. As for the gravel path it splits the planting in two. May I suggest that you meander your paths instead of having them go straight. And instead on starting them in the middle of the pot start your paths over to a side front not middle. Also to give more depth perception you shoud make the paths narrower to the back so that it disappears in the distance. Thats why we plant larger trees to the front and smaller to the back for depth. Good forests always lead the eye to the back of the planting making you wonder what lays behind the trees.
Just a little trick to think about. Still well done.
Cheers
Kirky

[MJL]

Thanks for the tips Kirky. I understand what you are saying and I'm with you. While I like this progression and I think it will get better, I was/am undecided as to whether it was an improvement on the original. Live and learn.

On the paths - yep, I'll get better at them too. Or indeed, remove them. Sometimes I think I am trying too hard ... if that makes any sense - perhaps without a path, the trees will speak for themselves sometimes. That said, perhaps I need something like real bonsai trees before they can speak for themselves.

Your comment about the bigger trees to the front I only recently learned. In both this and the Japanese Maple progression, I have tried to heed that advice. I had not translated that into the paths though - wide to narrow. I also get what you're saying about starting them further to the side.

...and that's why I joined this forum - to learn.

So cheers again for taking the time to offer your thoughts. Appreciated.

[Keep Calm and Ramify]

On the paths - yep, I'll get better at them too. Or indeed, remove them. Sometimes I think I am trying too hard ... if that makes any sense - perhaps without a path, the trees will speak for themselves sometimes.

MJL- For me, its just the pale coloured gravel that screams out "HEY....LOOK AT ME HERE - I'M A PATH!"

Too much information.

I would prefer to use my imagination to speculate the presence & direction of a path [or even many paths]
A hint is usually powerful enough to evoke. Sometimes, that what is missing, can still be seen?

Below are a few pics from Hong Kong's Man Lung from the late 60's - 70's (hence photo quality not great.) But I hope these can be useful in helping explain my comments.

Again it's only & I appreciate your posts!

Man Lung 03.jpg

Man Lung 02.jpg

Man Lung 01.jpg

[Damian Bee]

Hey MJL.
Don’t be too hard on yourself, you are at the least aware and willing to give it a go. I have not even attempted a forest planting, I’ve thought and pondered the possibilities but that is as far as I have walked that path
Have fun with what you are doing, there’s no better way to learn

[MJL]

Thanks KC&R and Damian.

KC&R - excellent photos and I get what you are saying too. Upon reflection, my path is not to scale and not 'natural' ... in short it's too blunt; too dominant is respect of he whole picture. Also - Why, I dropped it in nearly dead centre I am not sure? Actually there is a lesson for all here... I really should have sketched or planned out the design. I noted in my other Japanese Maple forest the rule of thirds - a rule that I used in photography. Here, I have broken that rule.

I think that occurred because I had a vague idea of a design in my head and then got carried away as I tried to trim roots, lay them out well, fit a clumps (of trees that had knitted well) here and the odd tree there. In the end - it's actually a pretty reasonable 'random' placement but then... the path takes the randomness and makes it look too constructed. Hmmmm..... lessons.

Actually, if there's an element that I think is strong on both forests - the trees are reasonably random; they look good in the flesh so to speak - very little alignment from any angle.... yet, a design where the older trees are forward and somewhat triangular.

Damian - thanks for the encouragement. It's all good. What I like is that - as a relatively inexperienced member of the Yarra Valley Bonsai Society (YVBS) - I can ask questions and learn face to face at various meetings. The YVBS is excellent for both learning and friendly discussion. I do travel a bit for work however and I cannot get to all meetings not take all my plants and new ideas. That's why this forum is so good. The club and the forum augment each other and I learn more. I hope others learn too.

So - - all good, I do like my forests and I don't think there is ever one 'right' way but the guidance and experience of those with much more knowledge than I and drawing from a rich history is valuable.

In many ways - I hope I draw and respect all of that and then with time, forge my own way too...

Good stuff. I am lucky enough to have a couple of days off work at present - the sun is out here in Melbourne so I might have more of a potter over the weekend.

Have a good day everyone.

[Damian Bee]

Rules are there to be broken mate
(Psssst , there are no rules, only guidelines)

[KIRKY]

The YVBS is an excellent club, you will be well guided by them. I wouldn’t stress too much these are your first attempts. I used to do the same thing when I first started a straight path straight down the middle. It’s only when someone points it out that you look at it and think oh yeah that does look better. The reason I liked your first forest is also personal taste plays into. What one person likes another may not. So your bonsai should always be something you are happy with. You’ll get there like all good bonsai it just takes time.
Cheers
Kirky

[MJL]

All cool. This curved, narrowing path looks better already ...

I’ll leave it for a while now. I’ll enjoy the spring growth; clipping and growing along the way.

Over time the path will soften and narrow as the moss grows - more subtle than now.

IMG_4967.JPG

IMG_4968.JPG

Cheers [CLINKING BEER MUGS]




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[melbrackstone]

Good on ya for trying different things. When you've got all those seedlings at hand you're pretty much bound to make use of them! I got some seeds from shibui last year, and now also have a stack of seedlings. I have wound some of the taller ones together and then squashed it madly like it's a juniper... you just never know what you're going to end up with if you don't try.

[Ryceman3]

This curved, narrowing path looks better already ...

Yeah I reckon ... the thing I like about paths when they're done well is that they are "worn" into the landscape. I think if the path looks to be grooved into the planting it appears more authentic, and I think yours is doing this. I think the scale is better too with this revision, and like Kirky said - the meandering helps also. Now if I could only remember/take my own advice!

[Boics]

Definitely an improvement.
Well done!

[MJL]

Thanks Mel, R3 and Boics - appreciate the feedback.

Have a good weekend.

[MJL]

This Chinese Elm forest is due for its second trim this season ....

Front view and then close up angled view. Just another young forest in training.

IMG_5913.jpg

IMG_5914.jpg

Bonsai teaches me patience.