Black Pine: The Last Pine

[MJL]

Happy Sunday AusBonsai Folk,

I purchased this pine from TimS recently. It was the last in his collection of pines. The last pine.

I really like this little tree. I repotted it this morning and along with "The Eff'ed Pine" it is high on the list one my favourite trees and I look forward to looking after this little tree over time.

Here's where we are starting.

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Cheers,

Mark

[TimS]

Just like the 'effed' pine, it's good to know this has gone to a home where it has a real future beyond just sitting on my bench getting watered and fed and generally ignored while i dote on my deciduous trees.

Hopefully this will give you a tree to learn on and play with, and you can use that experience to develop the seedlings along side!

Thanks for taking the pines off my hands and giving them the caring home they deserve!

[MJL]

Thanks Tim. All I can say is: "You're welcome, happy to help!"

I am just adding a top down picture for future reference too.

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[Matt S]

Great mycorrhiza there Mark. Obviously it's been looked after well.

I hope you enjoy working on your pines. Although my experience is limited to Black pines and radiatas, I like the rhythm of their growth and the needle plucking and candle pruning that goes with it.

Matt.

[Ryceman3]

Great mycorrhiza there Mark. Obviously it's been looked after well.

Agreed. It’s in good nick and puts you on the front foot for getting stuff done when the time comes this summer.
I’ll be watching!

[MJL]

Great mycorrhiza there Mark. Obviously it's been looked after well.

I hope you enjoy working on your pines. Although my experience is limited to Black pines and radiatas, I like the rhythm of their growth and the needle plucking and candle pruning that goes with it.

Matt.

Cheers, Matt. Yep, apart from Tim's relative disinterest in tending pines - as a passionate horticulturalist, he clearly knows how to grow wonderfully healthy plants. I understand that I'm quite fortunate to have this gold in the pot. Given the trim I gave this pine today ... I've been busy 'inoculating' my other pines which are basically limited to the seedlings I purchased off Ryceman! (I've always wanted to use that word - 'inoculating' - sounds half like I know something ... which I don't so... if I have used it incorrectly, I apologise.)

Interesting that you note the rhythm of their growth; I'm starting to understand that pines do have a rhythm to follow. Some may find that boring but I reckon that I can overcome my fear of pines by understanding and adhering to their rhythm.

Cheers,

Mark

[MJL]

On a related aside to this pine and the Eff’d Pine thread, you’ll note sphagnum moss on the surface. I may have missed conversations about this before but it was the first time I had noted this technique.

My understanding of the benefits of adding this to a newly repotted pine include:
-Holding potting mix in place;
-A visual cue for watering - when sphagnum turns white (dry) it indicated that it’s time for watering;
-eventually you’ll develop an attractive Moss layer.

On the flip side - the moss layer must not be too thick as to restrict water and airflow.

Note that the sphagnum layer on this pine is potentially too thick - it is much thinner and a finer grade on the Eff’d pine as applied by Scott.

Finally, given the root work, I was instructed to protect tree for the next three weeks - even keep it in indoors (albeit no direct sunlight from a window.) Again, interesting.

Anyway - as this is a learning forum - I thought I should note this idea/technique. My normal caveats apply - I’m no expert but the idea seems worth considering, although I am sure there are many alternate approaches too.

Mark

[鸕盆栽 Gamauji Bonsai]

On a related aside to this pine and the Eff’d Pine thread, you’ll note sphagnum moss on the surface. I may have missed conversations about this before but it was the first time I had noted this technique.

My understanding of the benefits of adding this to a newly repotted pine include:
-Holding potting mix in place;
-A visual cue for watering - when sphagnum turns white (dry) it indicated that it’s time for watering;
-eventually you’ll develop an attractive Moss layer.

On the flip side - the moss layer must not be too thick as to restrict water and airflow.

Note that the sphagnum layer on this pine is potentially too thick - it is much thinner and a finer grade on the Eff’d pine as applied by Scott.

Finally, given the root work, I was instructed to protect tree for the next three weeks - even keep it in indoors (albeit no direct sunlight from a window.) Again, interesting.

Anyway - as this is a learning forum - I thought I should note this idea/technique. My normal caveats apply - I’m no expert but the idea seems worth considering, although I am sure there are many alternate approaches too.

Mark

Protect it inside? Does the ground freeze solid where you are? I very strongly recommend against putting your tree inside because that's far more likely to kill it. Sphagnum moss also holds too much moisture for pines. The tree should be in direct morning and afternoon sunlight but not full sun although if you are in Melbourne it's not going to matter. Where did you get your advice? Nice tree so by the way.

[MJL]

Protect it inside? Does the ground freeze solid where you are? I very strongly recommend against putting your tree inside because that's far more likely to kill it. Sphagnum moss also holds too much moisture for pines. The tree should be in direct morning and afternoon sunlight but not full sun although if you are in Melbourne it's not going to matter. Where did you get your advice? Nice tree so by the way.

Yes - interesting I know. Regarding sphagnum - as noted, I think my layer is too thick and perhaps it should be sifted and sprinkled lightly. Regarding inside - yes again, interesting and only for the immediate period after repotting - 3 weeks and not near air conditioning/heating. I’ll check in with the person I received advice from - I am probably mis-interpreting and don’t want to bring their good name down with my incompetence.

I should also note that there is absolutely no sphagnum moss in the potting mix itself; the potting mix is a very course, free draining mix.

[MJL]

A quick addition to my earlier response. I have checked my approach with the gentlemen who informed me (in case I had mis-interpreted anything - an entirely plausible scenario with someone like me who rushes into things.) That said, in this instance, I am happy to continue with the technique/process that I am following: repotting.

Suffice to say that the approach I am adopting was taught in Japan and has now been practised locally for many years, across many hundreds of bonsai. I have been fortunate enough to see this person's collection too. It is rather wonderful; staggering. This gives me confidence to listen and follow the technique - not to blindly follow but to listen and learn, keeping a close eye on my own trees and understanding their health etc....

On the idea of bringing the newly potted plant out of the elements for a few weeks - I understand it is about stabilising the tree before getting into the growing season; allow the roots to start growing before there is a heavy draw on them from the foliage.

Anyway... I am new to pines ... relatively new to Bonsai after 6 or so years ... so much to learn. Through more reading, discussion, participation here and in clubs and indeed, formal lessons/workshops, I hope to learn lots more.

Of course and as always, I welcome all thoughts and ideas. Forgive me if I don't get involved in detailed discussion/debate ... I simply don't have the knowledge ... just thought I should close the loop on my prior post.

Cheers,

Mark

[鸕盆栽 Gamauji Bonsai]

A quick addition to my earlier response. I have checked my approach with the gentlemen who informed me (in case I had mis-interpreted anything - an entirely plausible scenario with someone like me who rushes into things.) That said, in this instance, I am happy to continue with the technique/process that I am following: repotting.

Suffice to say that the approach I am adopting was taught in Japan and has now been practised locally for many years, across many hundreds of bonsai. I have been fortunate enough to see this person's collection too. It is rather wonderful; staggering. This gives me confidence to listen and follow the technique - not to blindly follow but to listen and learn, keeping a close eye on my own trees and understanding their health etc....

On the idea of bringing the newly potted plant out of the elements for a few weeks - I understand it is about stabilising the tree before getting into the growing season; allow the roots to start growing before there is a heavy draw on them from the foliage.

Anyway... I am new to pines ... relatively new to Bonsai after 6 or so years ... so much to learn. Through more reading, discussion, participation here and in clubs and indeed, formal lessons/workshops, I hope to learn lots more.

Of course and as always, I welcome all thoughts and ideas. Forgive me if I don't get involved in detailed discussion/debate ... I simply don't have the knowledge ... just thought I should close the loop on my prior post.

Cheers,

Mark

No problem.
The advice given is advice followed for protecting deciduous trees after a repot.
The reason is that pot dehydration and the wiring that probably took place has the potential to cause damage in the cold. With that said a greenhouse rather than a house is where they should be put.
The opposite is true for pines in which having their pot in the sun actually stimulates roots growth as well as growth of whatever the particular pine's symbiot is.

No part of Australia is cold enough to damage a JBP after potting and certainly not a JRP which can handle minus 35 without a problem.
I am glad whoever gave the advice has good trees but I have never heard such a thing from any of the Japanese, Chinese or Korean bonsai masters so I am going to have to respectfully disagree.

I do hope that your trees do well and look forward to seeing their development.

[shibui]

There will be as many different approaches to what is good aftercare as there is bonsai growers. What works for one may not be best for another, even in close proximity because each have slightly different microclimate and care. Adding different climates makes the differences even larger.
That said, many differences in care can be attributed to the fact that most trees are resilient and will survive DESPITE what we do to them.
I'm in favour of trees going straight back onto the benches where they get the best conditions for growth. Many growers now believe that sunlight is important for leaves to produce energy to make repairs and new roots and that certainly appears to work for me in my climate and conditions.

I understand people being cautious, especially with limited experience and new trees and because I know that trees are resilient and try to survive I don't bother trying to change habits and opinions. I just offer my experiences and methods for those who are interested.

[MJL]

Thanks Alaric and Neil. I really appreciate the feedback and most importantly (to me anyway), the respectful nature in which it has been provided.

Indeed, the reason I posted the approach was to highlight an approach that I was hitherto unaware and was giving a go. When I posted it I did wince because I thought I might be whacked, verbally.

The depth and variance of opinion, approach, climate, expertise, expertise in climate, knowledge both horticultural and technical is enormous on this forum. It is both one of its greatest benefits and perhaps one of the greater risks. In the end - who do we listen to (not me people!) - and we can only be responsible for our own actions.

I continue to be thankful for all those that continue to guide my understanding and provide tips to help me increase my skills. In this instance - I am following someone whom I intend to get lessons from too ... only a week or so to go and these little trees will be released into the wilds of my expansive courtyard. For now... a bright north facing room and oh, the irony ... my wife love these plants but alas - outside they must go, soon.

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[Ryceman3]

Might need to keep Powderfinger down to a dull roar MJL ... don't want that pine bouncing off your speaker ...

[terryb]

Indeed, the reason I posted the approach was to highlight an approach that I was hitherto unaware and was giving a go. When I posted it I did wince because I thought I might be whacked, verbally.

I'm glad you did post it. Advice generally comes from experience and folks will push what works for them. The shredded sphagnum dressing is heavily spruked by Mirai becasue it works for them in their garden and it will work for others too. I have tried the same thing with some of my repotting this year to evaluate it. We will see what happens.

I think Shibui has nailed it on the head:

What works for one may not be best for another, even in close proximity because each have slightly different microclimate and care.

In the end you have to find what works for you but having a number techniques you can try, that may not be immediately obvious to you, is a good thing
Keep on posting MJL.