Lilly pilly BIG RED!

[Daniel12]

Hello everyone.

I'm new to this bonsai game. I'm not new to gardening, I have a fair idea what I'm doing when it comes to veges and household gardens. But I reiterate, I'm new to bonsai
I've recently got a few small plants (saplings and root stock) such as Chinese elm, Japanese maple, cotoneaster etc and I have taken cuttings to grow of my favourite trees around my house. Long term my goal is to grow these trees and to learn the art of bonsai.
With these baby's planted and growing happily, I twiddled my thumbs a bit, and got reading and watching some YouTube videos which gave me the idea to chase some older nursery stock to add to the collection to speed up the process a bit.
Now I don't have a bonsai nursury in town, so I've been scowering the nurserys and I came across (what I thought) was a magnificent lilly pilly (as well as a crepe myrtle but that's for another post).
From what I was told by the staff, it is about ten years old and has been left forgotten out the back for that entire time. It's in a 20 inch pot and was a out 3 and a half feet when I got it.
Here are some pics from when I got it home and took the main trunk down and trimmed a few of the long branches away.

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My plan so far is


1: cut the main trunk down to about an inch above where the three branches leave the trunk.
2: of the three branches, wire the left and right one to the sides and leave the middle one be as a new trunk cutting it a few inches up from the junction.
3: trim said wired branches, left branch longer over the exposed roots and right one a bit shorter
4: leave the lower branch for a bit to see if it will work well with my design, leaving it untrimmed for now to thicken it up
5: trim roots a bit and repot in the same pot with new soil

The plan from there would be to leave it grow out in that pot for another year then repot into an appropriately sized bonsai pot.

Am I on the right track or do I have I no idea?
Is it just a terrible plant not worth my time?

Cheers, hope you can help! I'm open to suggestions too!

Dan

[Watto]

Hi Dan and welcome. If you put your location in your profile it will be much easier for people who wish to help to provide "proper" information based on where you are located.
This tree has some good points and some you will need to work on. Your plan for now is sound, water and fertilizer until next year is good but I am no expert on Lilly Pilly as they don't grow very well where I live - a bit too cold - so I will leave it to others to provide specific advice.

[GavinG]

Good choice, reasonable plan. Lillipilli make good bonsai, but as Watto said, most don't like frost.

I would check the condition of the roots fairly soon. If it's been neglected for ten years, there may be a nasty mass of congested roots and failing soil that may compromise the health of the tree. I don't think it's too late to deal with the issue now, but it depends where you are.

Cutting back hard is certainly a good course of action - I would do it at the same time as root work, but others might not. I wouldn't worry too much about wiring yet - cut the branches quite short, and regrow them in proportion to the trunk.

I've found them to be tough and forgiving. Nice score. If there's a bonsai club somewhere near, it's good to get some support if you're not experienced.

Best of luck, keep posting.

Gavin

[Daniel12]

Hello and thanks for the replies.

Yes I should have mentioned, I'm in Wagga, so it is a place of extremes in terms of heat and cold, but I have plenty of places to hide trees from the weather, as well as automated watering if needed. The high temps arent far away either, but the next few weeks should remain cool enough for a recovery I hope.

The tree is extremely healthy with a lot of new growth, especially a lot of suckers on the trunk!
I am planning to do root trim, repot and trim branches back tomorrow. Although I'm not sure on the soil choice at this stage. Also is it necessary to use cut paste?
Gavin after looking at the tree some more I agree, I am planning to cut the main trunk as well as the tree branches right back and worry about the shape later.
I think I'll leave the lower branch long, and wire it to point upward at about 45 degrees to the trunk.

There is a bonsai society in Wagga, I'm planning to attend the next meeting and make a few friends.

Cheers for the replies.

Dan.

[terryb]

Hi Dan, nice find! I'll add one thing to the previous comments - watch that junction. From the photo, it appears there are 7 branches that originate very close together. These will make that section of the trunk swell disproportionally.It may be the angle of the image but it looks to be starting already.

[Daniel12]

Hi terryb
Yes I have noticed that, it seems to be flatter across the front, not necessarily larger in circumference. On other angles it doesn't look as thick.
So would it be best to chop it just below the Junction? Alternatively I can cut those branches off close to the trunk and cut the main trunk a bit higher where it begins to really thin out and leave that as my starting point?
Third option might be cut the main trunk above the Junction, cut the left and right branches flush and leave the middle branch growing how it is but shorten it back.
Would that stop that fattening of the trunk?

Dan

[Ryceman3]

You need to cut so that only one branch forks from the trunk at one spot on the tree in order to avoid reverse taper.
You have a lot of branches coming from that one junction ... so you therefore have a lot of options about how to cut back!
It's very hard to give 3D advice from a 2D photo, but assuming this is the front you are going with then something like this might be an option?

Cut Zones.jpg

Trunk.jpg

There are lots of permutations you could make and you have the tree in front of you so much easier to get an accurate account of all that is going on, just keep in mind you want to cut back to maximise movement and taper in the trunk. That is ... cut for changes in direction and cut to leave branches that transition from thick to thin.
Hope that makes sense ... it looks like a bit of fun this one!

[Daniel12]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
The advice should help!
Ryceman thanks for the cut diagram. Looks pretty simple and the more I look at the tree the more sense it makes to cut it pretty much exactly like that.
Should be done in a few hours.

Cheers

Dan

[Daniel12]

Well it's done and dusted. I just hope I haven't killed it!

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Root ball, I hope it's not too big or small. After that photo I flattened it a bit more. It's also planted on a tile

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I had a breakage on the thick lower branch. But it was coming straight toward the view I wanted so I didn't mind. I left the teeny branch in the hope it will thicken and throw off some shoots. I think it suits the look too.
I chose to keep the top branch on the left as it heads back in the opposite direction to the original trunk bend. It also means I have a nice branch scar in the front view that will hopefully help the trunk look well aged.
So my question now is: what do I do with the cuts? I quite like the look where I've removed smaller branches but the big cut on the main trunk is particularly ugly.

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For now it's in a position of sun till about 11am, then full arvo shade. No fert until I see shoots or maybe just some Seasol to help things along?

I'd like to thank everyone for their input, I apologise for the excessive questions but do appreciate the help. I will keep you posted on the progress.

Dan.

[Ryceman3]

Looks pretty decent Dan,
If you look you’ll see that there is still reverse taper but as that lower left branch develops it will help to thicken the base below it and with any luck alleviate the issue... it’s only mild anyhow.
I think you made your cuts in decent spots. Like I said, it can be tricky advising on 3D decisions looking at a 2D image but all looks good for this to develop from here in my view.
In terms of the big cut... time is what is going to “fix” it. You need to be patient and let the tree repair itself over time. The good news is that big cut is made to the back of the tree, so from your front it is out of view. A back bud on the bottom right of that big cut site would be ideal for a branch... and if you get one there, as it develops that will help heal over the scar too - win/win.
Give it a few weeks to recover, Seasol if you like but just water is fine (no fertiliser for a bit). Wait for back budding to occur - Lilly Pilly will back bud profusely.
I think it will be fine. I’d be looking for a position with a bit more sun but if you want to wait until you see signs of recovery that’s probably cool too.
All in all, nice job.

[Daniel12]

Hi Ryceman,

Thanks for the feedback.
Yeah that reverse taper will hopefully go away, I was quite disappointed when I broke the big lower branch (sacrificial branch) off because I knew it would help the trunk thicken, but oh well. Lesson learned, be careful when rolling the tree for root cleaning.
I think the small branch left looks good regarding its placement for overall design, and it should look proportionate when the new growth comes in and when it thickens up itself.
I did have the same Thought regarding the large cut, I'm hoping it develops some shoots and/or heals over.
Is in necessary to seal it? I have Vaseline here if needed.

Once again, thank you for the help.

Dan

[Ryceman3]

Is in necessary to seal it? I have Vaseline here if needed.

I have cut paste so would probably stick that on but I don’t think it is completely necessary... dunno about Vaseline, it could work I guess... somebody else might have experience with that. I think it will be fine as is, good luck with it.

[terryb]

Root ball, I hope it's not too big or small. After that photo I flattened it a bit more. It's also planted on a tile

Looks like plenty of roots to support the foliage. I would have removed the root indicated below as it will hinder you moving to a shallow bonsai container at a future time but you can do that at the next repot.

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